Downloading Music

Jazzis wrote: I'm sorry to say this but you people have no idea what you are talking about. I am a music industry veteran (over 40 years of experience) and I have access to all the information (including inside information) from record companies, IFPI, RIAA, etc, etc. For every person, who downloads to listen to buy there are 10,000 at least who just download, never ever even considering buying! In some countries 95% of people ONLY download. Music sales have been going down consistently in the last 10 years and are now 50% lower then 10 years ago. Same is true for movies. The worst is that the young generation, that was born into internet and into downloading does not comprehend at all the basic notion of intellectual property / copyrights / etc. It will take years to educate - if at all possible - these people.

Do you even know Napster?

Edit: Actually I agree with most of what you're saying about the illegal downloading ... but the better part of the previous page of this thread was discussing *legal* downloads.

Edited by MikeEnRegalia

Downloading is all right when you use it to discover music. If you download something you like, then you should buy the album. I used to do that, but now I use other sources to hear new music that don't require me to illegally download anything. There have been only a small number of instances where I haven't been able to find certain albums to buy, so I have resorted to downloading them until I can find real copies.

Also, as far as legal downloading goes, I would much rather own the albums, with the artwork, booklets, etc. than just having files on my computer and/or a burned disc.

Jazzis wrote: I'm sorry to say this but you people have no idea what you are talking about. I am a music industry veteran (over 40 years of experience) and I have access to all the information (including inside information) from record companies, IFPI, RIAA, etc, etc. For every person, who downloads to listen to buy there are 10,000 at least who just download, never ever even considering buying! In some countries 95% of people ONLY download. Music sales have been going down consistently in the last 10 years and are now 50% lower then 10 years ago. Same is true for movies. The worst is that the young generation, that was born into internet and into downloading does not comprehend at all the basic notion of intellectual property / copyrights / etc. It will take years to educate - if at all possible - these people.

 

In the early (free) days of Napster, I made it a point to only download music that was unavailable for purchase.  If (to my knowledge) it bacame available, I've always made a point to purchase, because I believe the artist does deserve to get paid. 

 

Regarding the problem with the younger generation, you may be on to something there.  My neices and nephews aren't prone to shoplifting but don't seem to have the same inhibition or moral objection with regard to illegal downloading.  I must say, they would if they were my kids ... they've had enough of my bitching  about it that not one of them will bring it up around me.

 

I spent 12 years in music retail, and jumped when things started to get bad ... back in 2000.  But in my view, the music industry has created a lot of their own problems and most of them aren't related to downloading.  How many times has the next big thing come around, only to followed by sound-alike bands with ever-diminishing levels of talent?  What about the payola? My neices and nephews look at me with an absolutely blank stare when I try to explain that a lot of music that gets played on the radio stations they prefer is bought and paid for by the labels.  They think I'm some kind of geezer conspiracy freak. 

 

I enjoy a wide variety of music, and it's a shame that a lot of the older music that I like is difficult of impossible to find on CD.  I know that it's not financially sound to just throw the vaults open and start pressing discs. but with music in general and prog in particular, it can be spectacularly difficult to find some music.  I spend around $50 a week on music, but I really feel as though I'm not able to buy a lot of stuff I really want.  The majors (and the indies, in a way) are so focused on a younger demographic that my money doesn't speak to them.  And most bricks and mortar retailers are very careful about what they stock, because if it ain't sellin' it's taking up space. I've been doing a lot of on-line buying, but even when I find an obscure piece I want, there are quite a few instances where it's listed on their site but not in stock, and I face an endless cycle of backordering.  Most recently, for example, I tried to purchase "Strange Behaviour" by Karnataka.  I placed the order in August.  It's still on backorder. 

 

I see I've gotten pretty far afield here.  but I guess my point is this ... I'm not in favor of illegal downloading, but when I hear the problems of the music industry blamed largely on downloading, I see an industry looking to lay the blame elsewhere...

The music industry always tries to convert downloading figures into their loss. However, the logic in this is flawed. They assume every downloaded song would have been purchased if P2P wasn't there! Why does this seem a logical conclusion? It doesn't to me. My guess (and I state guess) would be more like 10% (at most) of downloads would have been purchased... And, yes, I realise this is still a significant figure, but the industry has always been plagued with illegal copying in one form or another. The difference today- they can actually see and measure the illegal activity.

Jazzis wrote: For every person, who downloads to listen to buy there are 10,000 at least who just download, never ever even considering buying! In some countries 95% of people ONLY download. Music sales have been going down consistently in the last 10 years and are now 50% lower then 10 years ago. Same is true for movies. The worst is that the young generation, that was born into internet and into downloading does not comprehend at all the basic notion of intellectual property / copyrights / etc. It will take years to educate - if at all possible - these people.

that says more to me about the quality of music today.  Don't even start me on movies.... people are crazy to pay those prices for retread movies and endless sequels.  If the music is quality they'll buy it.  I've had whole albums sent to me via PM, and IM.. the albums I disliked, I put in the trash can, those I liked.. I bought.  Much like the old samples here, especially for prog, there is SO much out there, and even though I make a nice living... I'm  married and my wife won't let me go THAT crazy hahaha. The samples are a means to an end.. to find what I like so I can buy it. I'm a bit of old school that if I want an album... I have to have it on my shelves. The moral in my worldview is.... Want to sell records... be creative and do something different that people will want to hear.  Just my two cents.


Edited by micky

I feel that while downloading is a good way to experience new music, it's more rewarding to myself and the band to purchase the album (on CD or vinyl) because I feel the glow of commerce, and I have an album with liner notes, an album cover, little tidbits of info, photos, etc.

ambriz wrote: I'm going to be honest here. I have 20 GB of Progressive Metal music in my computer right now, as a matter of fact, I own an album from each band progarchives has in the prog. metal catalog. Unfortunately, living in the United States in a relatively small city, it is impossible for me to get an album by those artist, so I have to download them via E-mule. There have been a lot of progressive albums I loved and looking for an opportunity in the future to purchase them in a store, if they become available.

I don't understand - you're saying that you OWN an album by each artist. That would mean that you bought it, but you're saying that you downloaded them. So - did you buy them or not?

ambriz wrote: I'm going to be honest here. I have 20 GB of Progressive Metal music in my computer right now, as a matter of fact, I own an album from each band progarchives has in the prog. metal catalog. Unfortunately, living in the United States in a relatively small city, it is impossible for me to get an album by those artist, so I have to download them via E-mule. There have been a lot of progressive albums I loved and looking for an opportunity in the future to purchase them in a store, if they become available.

Online shopping is alll the rage.  I hear that in the next few years they'll have the technology to ship to relatively small cities too.

ChadFromCanada wrote: ambriz wrote: I'm going to be honest here. I have 20 GB of Progressive Metal music in my computer right now, as a matter of fact, I own an album from each band progarchives has in the prog. metal catalog. Unfortunately, living in the United States in a relatively small city, it is impossible for me to get an album by those artist, so I have to download them via E-mule. There have been a lot of progressive albums I loved and looking for an opportunity in the future to purchase them in a store, if they become available. Online shopping is alll the rage.  I hear that in the next few years they'll have the technology to ship to relatively small cities too.

, but yea, you should consider online shopping.

Moatilliatta wrote: Jazzis wrote: Downloading is killing the music - pretty soon there will be no music - just a matter of time. If a musician can't feed himself fom his art - he will stop being an artists. If the artists are doing it for the love of music, I don't think they will quit if they can't make a living off of their art. I know of bands that have day jobs, and spend their nights together writing, rehearsing, etc. Sure, it would be stressful, among other things, but unfortunately, sometimes artists have to resort to doing that. If they love making music, they will make music regardless of circumstance.

From a personal point of view, Moatilliatta speaks the truth to a certain extent. Creative people feel the need to create and there is nothing that will stop that while they are young, but there will always come a point in anyones career where harsh decisions have to be made about future plans. So, in fact, you are both right. While young, creators will create, but if the creator cannot make money from his/her talents, it will stop.