Why do you blame collins?

When I had bought And Then There Were Three I played it two times and then threw it away from my balcony for the birds, I was so upset about some poppy songs and afraid that Phil had taken command of Genesis. I even refused to join my friends to the concert In Leiden, The Netherlands (I still feel very frustrated about that, I missed the 'mirrors-tour').

PC is a very fine drummer, one of my favourites, and he doesn't sing bad (especially on 'No jacket required') so please stop such childish discussion. He is one of the rare drummers who didn't record an album for the art of drumming. And he is not to blame in genesis' change of direction : other prog bands followed the same path (Le Orme, Yes, Banco, ELP, King Crimson, Renaissance, Jethro Tull and many more). And was PG still prog after he left Genesis : OBVIOUSLY NOT.

Nobody here has ever said anything against this fact, by thecontrary I believe he wasn't just good, he is an excellent drummer.

We should acknowledge that a rock group can't compose 10 times the same song only different.

Genesis made much more than 10 excellent songs, and each one is different to the previous. I'm nost asking for more of the same, just keep at least part of the original sound and quality.

Just check something, if Genesis was ever original was when they were Prog', when they became POP they were just another band giving the people simple music that anybody could make, all their ballads sound almost exactly the same and almost exact to Collins solo stuff.

 Collins lead the group to new horizons. This does not mean that I like it better than in the old days with Gabriel. But Gabriel went away. That's a fact. Pretty selfish.

Pretty selfish? Do you know something about Peter's history in that moment?

1. Peter's daughter was very sick, and I believe he wasn't really supported by his bandmates and school friends.
2. Peter asked for a delay in the release of The Lamb because of this personal problems and a side project with his short story. The rest of the band said no.
3. Phil Collins has stated that Peter was almost forced to leave theatricals because they didn't liked it.
4. The rest of the band was tired that Peter was the image of Genesis and they made him feel that.
5. There was a lot of problems, so he decided to leave.

Read the lyrics of Solsbury Hills, you can feel his disapointment:

And Collins did what he had to do - making simple Pop-Songs. That's fair enough.

That's profitable enough would be more precise.

Cool down boys!

^ That is correct. Stating that Collins was The man that killed Genesis is giving too much credit to Phil Collins and too little respect to Banks and Rutherford by indirectly saying they are followers. Of course Phil Collins had influences, but the other two were clearly ready to follow or even walk aside him.

The problem is that late Genesis albums sound exactly the same as Phil solo albums and not as Tony or Mike's, of course they have their share of responsability, but the head was Phil.

Just to remind how powerful the little guy got, Tony said no way when Collins asked to add the Phoenix Horns from Earth Wind & Fire to ABACRAP, he even said he could create the effect with his synth.

But Collins made a big issue of that and they all accepted, want it or not in a band like Genesis where Tony hides behind the keyboards and Mike plays way behind, the frontman is the leader.

Collins was surely not the big man behind early Genesis and as far I know he never claimed to be.

Collins was asked in Genesis a History if HE would let Peter Gabriel join back and he said clearly and without asking anybody else: "NO, I WOULDN'T ALLOW HIM"

So he not only claimed to be the leader, but in fact he was

I do not like the elevator type of music he has started to make and sadly still does, but he gets my respect anyway. He has an outstanding and very differs musical carreer and kept on being in the musical top for decades. People like Prince and even Michael Jackson couldn't keep their audience (even if it is a different one) for that long.

Michael jackson (despite his horrible music) kept his audience since 1975 when he won his first solo Billboard award with Forever Michael and reached the peak of the mediocre POP circuits when he released the single "Don't Stop Till You Get Enough" until at least Dangerous in 1992.

Collins Pop Genesis became really popular since Genesis (Shapes) in 1983,  before that they got a couple hit singles but not really massive and he left Genesis in 1995 (Despite they didn't had released any other studio album since 1991),

So he didn't even had the "honor" (???) to beat Wacko Jacko. 

So why blame him. He was getting older. It takes much more time to write a decent prog song than a little pop song. The man is a lazy genius.

The problem is not that he was getting older and it was harder to write a decent Prog' song, this could be said if he was ever a prolific Prog songwritter, but the fact is  that I doubt he ever wrote alone a single decent Prog' song.

Tony Banks could be accused of lazy, Mike maybe, they became Phil Collins favorite session musicians, but Phil always kept busy, he maintained a solo career parallel to Genesis, signed with Disney and managed to keep control of the band.

He's just a great drummer but an absolutely cheesy song writter.