Why do you blame collins?

If you really know about prog music you should know that collins always was the mastermind of genesis. The leaving of Gabriel was a coincidence with the change in gensis music but also with all the musical movement in england, they truly kept on creating new things. The problem is to watch it retrospectivly and not paying attention to the context

He was the one who made Genesis sell out. Once Hackett left, he really became the mastermind, and killed a great band. And his solo career was cheap pop too!

I for one think Genesis got better without Gabriel

You know, musicans have  to eat too.

Well considering Wnd and the wuthering and A trick of the tail i think Genesis would have made some more decent if not great stuff if Hackett hadnt left. That being said Phil Collins is a dispicable man whom i loath with a vigorous passion

carry on

pakish wrote: If you really know about prog music you should know that collins always was the mastermind of genesis. The leaving of Gabriel was a coincidence with the change in gensis music but also with all the musical movement in england, they truly kept on creating new things. The problem is to watch it retrospectivly and not paying attention to the context

...

It's amazing.

Where are these people COMING from?

Mars?

Phobos 9?

Further out?

Neptune?

Pluto?

"Observable edge of the Universe?"


SM.

Banks was the mastermind in Genesis.

lucas wrote: And he is not to blame in genesis' change of direction : other prog bands followed the same path (Le Orme, Yes, Banco, ELP, King Crimson, Renaissance, Jethro Tull and many more). And was PG still prog after he left Genesis : OBVIOUSLY NOT.

good point!

You know it is amazing, I look back on all the so called expert opinions about Collins, and I have to shake my head in dismay. Collins was ( and hopefully still is) a superb drummer. His vocal support on Nursery Cryme, Foxtrot, SEBTP and The Lamb was excellent and created a great combined choral output with Gabriel. Even ' More Fool Me' was IMHO a classic little song and a fine close to " Side One" of SEBTP.

The fact that people forget TOTT, Wind & Wuthering and And Then There Were Three and some think Collins sold the band out have obviously been listening to too much obscure junk like Opeth , dare I say it, IMHO. Collins's strength of character was what made Genesis survive thankfully to many fans from TOTT onwards. His vocals on Second's Out are of the highest calibre, IMHO I even rate Supper's Ready as good as Gabriels, yes poor old Steve Hackett moved on, but what made Genesis so refreshing was that they continually managed to reinvent themselves. People say Collin's lyrics were rediculous, what about Gabriel's compromising stage outfits. Laughable now when viewed on film but at the time as fresh and vivid as driven snow.

Which makes me raise another question, why is it that we totally crucify an artist because they elected to evolve, albeit more commercially? Are we experts and could we do better than making a couple of hundred million quid? The Genesis sound did deteriorate after the Mama album but has anyone tried listening to Face Value or hello I must Be Going? Great albums especially the first by Collins. I don't see anyone crtiscizing Rutherford for Acting Very Strange or the awful latter Mike And The Mechanics. Tony Banks after the incredible A Curious Feeling, even though was not as commercial ( he damn well tried!!!) made some very poor solo material.

All their solo projects helped one another return to the fold to recreate Genesis and I for one love almost evything they produced with the possible exclusion of Invisible Touch and Calling All Stations.I reckon some people think they are such experts on Collin's calibre when to be honest IMHO( there I have said it again) they don't really give the artist due credit and respect for all his contributions to Genesis. On a critical note it is 10 years since he released anything half decent.

Also I love Steve Hackett but to be really honest his last decent progressive album would probably go all the way back to the early 80's with Defector. Show me a band that remained so prolific for so long and tried their damnest to release concept albums up until Mama. Yes even Abacab had a progressive feel to it.

My final point is that if we can have artists like Roger Hodgson or ELO on PA why the hell can we not have Collin's solo work. I am sure it may well fair badly in the ratings but to dismiss his works on the basis of commercialism is hypocrticial. Face Value alone was groundbreaking music.

Chris Stacey wrote: Also I love Steve Hackett but to be really honest his last decent progressive album would probably go all the way back to the early 80's with Defector.

I would agree wholeheartedly with you on all points except this.
IMHO, two among his most outstading works are Guitar Noir and To Watch The Storms...so fresh, ironic, lushful, and spanning so many genres in an excellent way throughout one single album!

And, to be honest in my turn, I think some of Mike and the Mechanics' outputs (like The Living Years and 6) are very good albums!