Philosophy

Nope BF, laws of physics exist despite our observation, comets are in their orbits millions of years before man or even earth existed. Due to the law of inertia, eternally following an eliptic orbit created by the force of gravity of the sun (If there was not sun and planets, the trayectory would be linear).

"Every object in a state of uniform motion tends to remain in that state of motion unless an external force is applied to it."

Newton discovered this law in 1687, but the Halley Comet appears in the Bayeux Tapestry conmemorating the Battle of Hastings in 1066 (Halley Comet passed near the earth in that exact year due to it's precise cicle).

We discover the laws of physics, but this doesn't mean this laws didn't existed long before we discovered them.

But the fact that we only ever observed noise-making falling trees so far is not proof that all falling trees make noises; it only makes it highly probable.

Again, if any object with mass collisions with other object with mass, will produce a vibration that will create a sound, this is undeniable in our atmosphere.

The Tunguska phenomenom (Siberia 1908 if I'm not wrong) wasn't heard by anybody (Only by nomads who were killed and one aparent witness (not reliable I guess),  because it happened far away of any populated area, but 40 Kms of forest were burned, trees were destroyed by a huge explosion without leaving a crater (Probably was made of ice).

Anybody could have said that we don't know if it produced a sound because nobody actually heard it (Or lived to tell us).

But the impact was detected by seismic stations in GB and USA (Even when the meteor exploded over he surface of the earth because air has molecules also).

So even when nobody alive was there to prove it, this comet or meteor produced a huge sound when crashed with the atmosphere, because both have mass.

This is the same for all "laws" of nature we know. You can't derive the non-existence of a non-striped tiger from the fact that you only ever saw striped ones. And indeed there are some white tigers.

You're making my point, the fact that nobody has seen a white tiger doesn't mean that doesn't exist, the same as saying that the fact that nobody listens a tree falling doesn't means it don't produce sound.

But this is a different thing, the existence of white tigers dont defy laws of nature, by the contrary their existence reinforces the fact that some genetic abnormality produce albino species, it's common to see kids from the black race absolutely white because they are albinos.

But laws of physics can't change in the atmosphers, trees have mass, earth has mass, colission of masses produces vibration, that's a fact.

And if you want proves, thousands of millions of trees have been destroyed by men, each and every one of this trees have produced a sound, so the chances that this fantastic spiritual non corporeal tree falls in a hidden place are astronomically low.

Use the Occam Razor argument, if there are two possibilities choose the logical one and that will be the answer. 

 Many creatures that were supposed to be "mystic" were discovered in the late 19th and early 20th century; hundreds of new species of insects are discovered yearly.

The fact that tgis creatures were discovered in the XIX and XX Centuries is another prove of my theory.

Those species existed despite manhood never saw them, for the same reasoin the tree makes a sound despite there's no human to watch it.

You may say: "I can derive the tree would make a sound from the physical theories we know to be true", but even the best physical theories don't describe incidents accurately (you could for example never fortell where a certain leaf of a tree will land when it falls).

But we know the leaf will fall!!!!

Law of gravity doesn't say where an object will fall, it simply states that the object will fall atracted by the gravitational force of the Earth.

Law of Gravity doesn't say a leaf will fall 2, 3 or 4 meters away from the tree only says that any thing heavier than air will fall, leaves are heavier than air, ergo...leafs fall.

We can't know exactly how strong the tree will sound (I believe it can be calculated), but it will make a sound.

It would have be a tree without mass (A ghost tree), and that's absolutely impossible, because trees are solid, and even if you find a very soft tree almost like a pillow, it would produce a sound, softer, but still sound.

I recommend to read the very entertaining and informative book "Why Aren't Black Holes Black?

I'm going to buy it, but the laws of physic work in a different way in space.

The Unanswered Questions at the Frontiers of Science" by Robert M. Hazen and Maxine Singer. Palaeontoligist Stephen J. Gould wrote a very interesting and enlightening preface to it, which deals with topics like this.

Another one I'll get, but still laws of physic work

AtLossForWords wrote: goose wrote: BaldFriede wrote: Tony R wrote: You mean: "If a tree falls in the woods,and nobody witnesses it does it make a sound?" Ok,so you edited it![IMG]alt=LOL src="style=" border=0 pointer; cursor: http: forum smileys onclick="AddSmileyIcon'smileys/smiley36.gif'" smiley36.gif www.progarchives> <!-- Signature -->   The answer is yes!! How could the answer be anything other....?   So how do you know? You have not been around. You just derive that from having seen other trees fall and having heard the sound that makes. Let's phrase the question a little differently: "If a neutron in the nucleus of an atom decays and turns into a proton, does it emit an electron when no-one is there to observe it?" Anyone who knows a bit about quantum mechanics will tell you that it indeed makes a big difference whether there is an observer or not. Since a sound can be defined as a vibration through a medium, the laws of physics state that a falling tree (assuming it's not just eternally falling through a vacuum, that is) must indeed create a sound. It can't be proven, but then nothing can be proven without at least one assumption. No the tree does not make a sound.  Existence is relative to perception.  If there is no knowledge of the tree falling, does it really exist?  If there is no knowledge of the tree, there is no tree to fall, if there is no tree to fall, the tree does not make a sound.  Something must exist before it can act.

Says who?

Nope BF, laws of physics exist despite our observation, comets are in their orbits millions of years before man or even earth existed. Due to the law of inertia, eternally following an eliptic orbit created by the force of gravity of the sun (If there was not sun and planets, the trayectory would be linear).

"Every object in a state of uniform motion tends to remain in that state of motion unless an external force is applied to it."

Newton discovered this law in 1687, but the Halley Comet appears in the Bayeux Tapestry conmemorating the Battle of Hastings in 1066 (Halley Comet passed near the earth in that exact year due to it's precise cicle).

We discover the laws of physics, but this doesn't mean this laws didn't existed long before we discovered them.

But the fact that we only ever observed noise-making falling trees so far is not proof that all falling trees make noises; it only makes it highly probable.

Again, if any object with mass collisions with other object with mass, will produce a vibration that will create a sound, this is undeniable in our atmosphere.

The Tunguska phenomenom (Siberia 1908 if I'm not wrong) wasn't heard by anybody (Only by nomads who were killed and one aparent witness (not reliable I guess),  because it happened far away of any populated area, but 40 Kms of forest were burned, trees were destroyed by a huge explosion without leaving a crater (Probably was made of ice).

Anybody could have said that we don't know if it produced a sound because nobody actually heard it (Or lived to tell us).

But the impact was detected by seismic stations in GB and USA (Even when the meteor exploded over he surface of the earth because air has molecules also).

So even when nobody alive was there to prove it, this comet or meteor produced a huge sound when crashed with the atmosphere, because both have mass.

This is the same for all "laws" of nature we know. You can't derive the non-existence of a non-striped tiger from the fact that you only ever saw striped ones. And indeed there are some white tigers.

You're making my point, the fact that nobody has seen a white tiger doesn't mean that doesn't exist, the same as saying that the fact that nobody listens a tree falling doesn't means it don't produce sound.

But this is a different thing, the existence of white tigers dont defy laws of nature, by the contrary their existence reinforces the fact that some genetic abnormality produce albino species, it's common to see kids from the black race absolutely white because they are albinos.

But laws of physics can't change in the atmosphers, trees have mass, earth has mass, colission of masses produces vibration, that's a fact.

And if you want proves, thousands of millions of trees have been destroyed by men, each and every one of this trees have produced a sound, so the chances that this fantastic spiritual non corporeal tree falls in a hidden place are astronomically low.

Use the Occam Razor argument, if there are two possibilities choose the logical one and that will be the answer. 

 Many creatures that were supposed to be "mystic" were discovered in the late 19th and early 20th century; hundreds of new species of insects are discovered yearly.

The fact that tgis creatures were discovered in the XIX and XX Centuries is another prove of my theory.

Those species existed despite manhood never saw them, for the same reasoin the tree makes a sound despite there's no human to watch it.

You may say: "I can derive the tree would make a sound from the physical theories we know to be true", but even the best physical theories don't describe incidents accurately (you could for example never fortell where a certain leaf of a tree will land when it falls).

But we know the leaf will fall!!!!

Law of gravity doesn't say where an object will fall, it simply states that the object will fall atracted by the gravitational force of the Earth.

Law of Gravity doesn't say a leaf will fall 2, 3 or 4 meters away from the tree only says that any thing heavier than air will fall, leaves are heavier than air, ergo...leafs fall.

We can't know exactly how strong the tree will sound (I believe it can be calculated), but it will make a sound.

It would have be a tree without mass (A ghost tree), and that's absolutely impossible, because trees are solid, and even if you find a very soft tree almost like a pillow, it would produce a sound, softer, but still sound.

I recommend to read the very entertaining and informative book "Why Aren't Black Holes Black?

I'm going to buy it, but the laws of physic work in a different way in space.

The Unanswered Questions at the Frontiers of Science" by Robert M. Hazen and Maxine Singer. Palaeontoligist Stephen J. Gould wrote a very interesting and enlightening preface to it, which deals with topics like this.

Another one I'll get, but still laws of physic work