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krusty View Drop Down
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Points: 1777 		Direct Link To This Post Topic: Burned CD’s short lifespan.
    Posted: January 11 2006 at 08:25
If you have ever made a backup of your favorite CD or made a compilation of your fav. tunes, that CD is probably on borrowed time according to this research
http://computerworld.com/hardwaretopics/storage/story/0,1080 1,107607,00.html

In fact it could last as little as 2 YEARS!!!

I can confirm this as well. I have had a CD writer since about 1996 and during that time I have been sampling my vinyl & tape so I can move it to audio CD.
Well all those early CD's I have made are sounding quite crap now, almost like when you have a bad needle on vinyl.
I'm starting to feel like I have wasted my time now.





Edited by krusty
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Bob Greece View Drop Down
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Points: 1823 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 11 2006 at 08:39

I keep my songs as MP3 files on the computer and back them up occassionally. That way, they don't degrade on CDs.


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Points: 10063 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 11 2006 at 09:50

I have my MP3s on my PC, and i do back them up using CDRs and RWs.

Yeah, i can relate.

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Peter View Drop Down
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Points: 9669 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 11 2006 at 11:10

ShockedYikes!

Yeah, I have a couple of older burned CDs that were a gift, that won't play any more.Ouch

The ones I usually buy are Verbatim. I don't know how long they'll last (going on 3 - 4 years now), but on the back of the box it says: "Archival life up to 100 years" (though that's hard to believe, in light of the posted article).Ermm

No more cheapo CDs for me!Stern Smile

Anyway, thanks for the "heads up," krusty!Smile



Edited by Peter
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Points: 32995 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 11 2006 at 11:16

Id better check mine, but I think they still play fine

 
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Tony R View Drop Down
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Points: 11979 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 11 2006 at 11:36

Some do's and dont's:

DO:

  • Handle discs by the outer edge or the centre hole
  • Use a non solvent-based felt-tip permanent marker to mark the label side of the disc
  • Keep dirt or other foreign matter from the disc
  • Store discs upright (book style) in original jewel cases that are specified for CDs and DVDs
  • Return discs to their jewel cases immediately after use
  • Leave discs in their spindle or jewel case to minimize the effects of environmental changes
  • Remove the shrink wrap only when you are ready to record data on the disc
  • Store in a cool, dry, dark environment in which the air is clean -- relative humidity should be in the range 20% - 50%  and temperature should be in the range 4°C - 20°C
  • Remove dirt, foreign material, fingerprints, smudges, and liquids by wiping with a clean cotton fabric in a straight line from the centre of the disc toward the outer edge
  • Use de-ionised (best), distilled or soft tap water to clean your discs.  For tough problems use diluted dish detergent or rubbing alcohol.  Rinse and dry thoroughly with a lint-free cloth or photo lens tissue
  • Check the disc surface before recording


Don't:

  • Touch the surface of the disc
  • Bend the disc
  • Store discs horizontally for a long time (years)
  • Open a recordable optical disc package if you are not ready to record
  • Expose discs to extreme heat or high humidity
  • Expose discs to extreme rapid temperature or humidity changes
  • Expose recordable discs to prolonged sunlight or other sources of UV light
  • Write or mark in the data area of the disc (area where the laser "reads")
  • Clean in a circular direction around the disc.

Quality media is essential too.You can expect high standards from Verbatim who have developed significantly improved, more sensitive and more stable dyes and reflective materials that virtually eliminate data loss during high-speed read/write processes and enhance long-term reliability.

It also makes sense to backup to as many different media as you can.I back up my music and picture files to DVD and to an exterrnal hard-drive.I also have two internal hard drives on my PC and a complete backup of my whole PC on DVDs which I update yearly and re-do.

 

 



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Points: 20239 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 11 2006 at 12:02
Originally posted by Peter Peter wrote:

ShockedYikes!

Yeah, I have a couple of older burned CDs that were a gift, that won't play any more.Ouch

The ones I usually buy are Verbatim. I don't know how long they'll last (going on 3 - 4 years now), but on the back of the box it says: "Archival life up to 100 years" (though that's hard to believe, in light of the posted article).Ermm

No more cheapo CDs for me!Stern Smile

Anyway, thanks for the "heads up," krusty!Smile

I never hadthe problem yet, as I use a hi-fi burner and Maxell Music CD-rs 80 mins
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Points: 20029 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 11 2006 at 13:31
How do Verbatim know that their CDs will last for "up to 100 years"?

This is a general worry of the digital age. Even if a CD with some MP3 files on it does last for, say, 10 or 20 years, how do we know we'll still have the technology around then to play them? The same thing goes for all my family videos.

And don't forget, hard drives don't last forever either!
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krusty View Drop Down
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Points: 1777 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 11 2006 at 14:51
I am guilty of buying cheap unbranded CDR's to backup CD's or put MP3's onto, I have been using DVD-R's for a while now but I should imagine they will suffer the same degradation.

Chopper raises an interesting point though, will there be audio cd, dvd or mp3 players in 10yrs time anyway.
I have a cupboard full of betamax videos that I can no longer play (yes I bought a betamax)
On the videos are lots of Old Grey Whistle Test performancies (Fairport Convention, King Crimson, Rory Gallagher, Captain Beefhart, etc) plus some tube episodes and because I don't have a player, I can't watch them

This is what could happen in the future, as Chopper said with your favorite tunes or your family video, you may still have the media but no device to play it!
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Points: 134 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 11 2006 at 14:57

Originally posted by krusty krusty wrote:

I am guilty of buying cheap unbranded CDR's to backup CD's or put MP3's onto, I have been using DVD-R's for a while now but I should imagine they will suffer the same degradation.

Chopper raises an interesting point though, will there be audio cd, dvd or mp3 players in 10yrs time anyway.
I have a cupboard full of betamax videos that I can no longer play (yes I bought a betamax)
On the videos are lots of Old Grey Whistle Test performancies (Fairport Convention, King Crimson, Rory Gallagher, Captain Beefhart, etc) plus some tube episodes and because I don't have a player, I can't watch them

This is what could happen in the future, as Chopper said with your favorite tunes or your family video, you may still have the media but no device to play it!




Same with me. I'm also using DVDRs to burn my music. If I'm not mistaken, DVD lasts longer then normal CD.. Even if it doesn't, although the waste of money, I can still have my music organized in any order I like.

 
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Tony R View Drop Down
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Points: 11979 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 11 2006 at 15:22

Originally posted by krusty krusty wrote:

I am guilty of buying cheap unbranded CDR's to backup CD's or put MP3's onto, I have been using DVD-R's for a while now but I should imagine they will suffer the same degradation.

Chopper raises an interesting point though, will there be audio cd, dvd or mp3 players in 10yrs time anyway.
I have a cupboard full of betamax videos that I can no longer play (yes I bought a betamax)
On the videos are lots of Old Grey Whistle Test performancies (Fairport Convention, King Crimson, Rory Gallagher, Captain Beefhart, etc) plus some tube episodes and because I don't have a player, I can't watch them

This is what could happen in the future, as Chopper said with your favorite tunes or your family video, you may still have the media but no device to play it!




You can by a DVD Recorder/VHS Combi and transfer your tapes to DVD!

This one's £150.
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Points: 44 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 11 2006 at 16:41
Originally posted by Tony R Tony R wrote:

Originally posted by krusty krusty wrote:

I am guilty of buying cheap unbranded CDR's to backup CD's or put MP3's onto, I have been using DVD-R's for a while now but I should imagine they will suffer the same degradation.Chopper raises an interesting point though, will there be audio cd, dvd or mp3 players in 10yrs time anyway.I have a cupboard full of betamax videos that I can no longer play (yes I bought a betamax)On the videos are lots of Old Grey Whistle Test performancies (Fairport Convention, King Crimson, Rory Gallagher, Captain Beefhart, etc) plus some tube episodes and because I don't have a player, I can't watch themThis is what could happen in the future, as Chopper said with your favorite tunes or your family video, you may still have the media but no device to play it!



You can by a DVD Recorder/VHS Combi and transfer your tapes to DVD!



This one's £150.



Unfortunately, as a VHS/DVD combo unit, it won't work with Betamax, which is a completely different and incompatible format.
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Points: 16437 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 11 2006 at 16:47

Now you know what this means?

My 650 burned cds will rot!

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Points: 2530 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 11 2006 at 18:35
Bloody marvellous !!
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Calling Mike Portnoy a bad drummer is like calling Stephen Hawking an idiot.
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Points: 4097 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 11 2006 at 20:11
Originally posted by Suki Suki wrote:

Originally posted by krusty krusty wrote:

I am guilty of buying cheap unbranded CDR's to backup CD's or put MP3's onto, I have been using DVD-R's for a while now but I should imagine they will suffer the same degradation.Chopper raises an interesting point though, will there be audio cd, dvd or mp3 players in 10yrs time anyway.I have a cupboard full of betamax videos that I can no longer play (yes I bought a betamax)On the videos are lots of Old Grey Whistle Test performancies (Fairport Convention, King Crimson, Rory Gallagher, Captain Beefhart, etc) plus some tube episodes and because I don't have a player, I can't watch themThis is what could happen in the future, as Chopper said with your favorite tunes or your family video, you may still have the media but no device to play it!


Same with me. I'm also using DVDRs to burn my music. If I'm not mistaken, DVD lasts longer then normal CD.. Even if it doesn't, although the waste of money, I can still have my music organized in any order I like.


 

If anything, DVDR (and +, - or whatever crazy symbols they put in these days) will likely less time than CDR, since I'm pretty sure the tracks are less wide, so it's easier for them to become misaligned (sorry, I'm not using the right words because it's 1am )
Originally posted by chopper chopper wrote:

How do Verbatim know that their CDs will last for "up to 100 years"?

This is a general worry of the digital age. Even if a CD with some MP3
files on it does last for, say, 10 or 20 years, how do we know we'll
still have the technology around then to play them? The same thing goes
for all my family videos.

And don't forget, hard drives don't last forever either!


So you should back up to a lossless format than you can then re-encode to a newer format without any change whatsoever
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Points: 21138 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 12 2006 at 08:47

I don't use CDs or DVDs for these purposes anymore. If you burned a lot of audio CDs, the best solution would be to make backups by ripping them in a lossless format and storing the files on  DVDs. If you use the Windows Media Player (wma lossless), you'll always be able to copy them from the DVD to the harddisk and then burn them again.

And be sure to copy the DVDs each year, just to be on the safe side.
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Bob Greece View Drop Down
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Points: 1823 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 12 2006 at 09:08

Originally posted by chopper chopper wrote:

How do Verbatim know that their CDs will last for "up to 100 years"?

I think they work on the assumption that if something goes wrong you

  • will have forgotten about the guarantee
  • never knew about it in the first place
  • won't know how to go about getting a replacement
  • couldn't be bothered to send the CDs back
  • won't have any means to play CDs anyway

Originally posted by chopper chopper wrote:

This is a general worry of the digital age. Even if a CD with some MP3 files on it does last for, say, 10 or 20 years, how do we know we'll still have the technology around then to play them? The same thing goes for all my family videos.

You probably won't be able to find a CD player that plays MP3 but MP3 has one big advantage over previous storage methods - it's the first software storage method and the previous methods were all hardware based so it should be easier to copy and replay MP3 in future than it is to copy and replay LPs. The same goes for MPEG videos.



Edited by Bob Greece


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JayDee View Drop Down
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Points: 10063 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 12 2006 at 09:19
Originally posted by King of Loss King of Loss wrote:

Now you know what this means?

My 650 burned cds will rot!

this means were both dead,

or am i the only one?

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Tony R View Drop Down
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Points: 11979 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 12 2006 at 11:22

Originally posted by krusty krusty wrote:

I am guilty of buying cheap unbranded CDR's to backup CD's or put MP3's onto, I have been using DVD-R's for a while now but I should imagine they will suffer the same degradation.

Chopper raises an interesting point though, will there be audio cd, dvd or mp3 players in 10yrs time anyway.
I have a cupboard full of betamax videos that I can no longer play (yes I bought a betamax)
On the videos are lots of Old Grey Whistle Test performancies (Fairport Convention, King Crimson, Rory Gallagher, Captain Beefhart, etc) plus some tube episodes and because I don't have a player, I can't watch them

This is what could happen in the future, as Chopper said with your favorite tunes or your family video, you may still have the media but no device to play it!




The betamax tapes can be transferred to VHS. There are places that will do this for you and I am pretty certain that you can buy something that will allow you to do it at home.

The Betamax Vs VHS incompatibility is unusual.There was a problem foreseen because of the +R and -R formats of DVDs but most players accept both and most burners can use either format.No doubt the same thing will happen with Blu-Ray and HD-DVD.

There is no chance that CDs and DVDs will be obsolete in 30 years.Whether they are still desirable is another matter.
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krusty View Drop Down
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Points: 1777 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 12 2006 at 11:44
Originally posted by Tony R Tony R wrote:

Originally posted by krusty krusty wrote:

I am guilty of buying cheap unbranded CDR's to backup CD's or put MP3's onto, I have been using DVD-R's for a while now but I should imagine they will suffer the same degradation.

Chopper raises an interesting point though, will there be audio cd, dvd or mp3 players in 10yrs time anyway.
I have a cupboard full of betamax videos that I can no longer play (yes I bought a betamax)
On the videos are lots of Old Grey Whistle Test performancies (Fairport Convention, King Crimson, Rory Gallagher, Captain Beefhart, etc) plus some tube episodes and because I don't have a player, I can't watch them

This is what could happen in the future, as Chopper said with your favorite tunes or your family video, you may still have the media but no device to play it!




The betamax tapes can be transferred to VHS. There are places that will do this for you and I am pretty certain that you can buy something that will allow you to do it at home.

The Betamax Vs VHS incompatibility is unusual.There was a problem foreseen because of the +R and -R formats of DVDs but most players accept both and most burners can use either format.No doubt the same thing will happen with Blu-Ray and HD-DVD.

There is no chance that CDs and DVDs will be obsolete in 30 years.Whether they are still desirable is another matter.



mmmm, bold statement at the end there
I remember Bill Gates stating no one would need more than 640Kb of RAM

I think Blu-Ray and HD-DVD will be the last iteration of optical storage in disk form.
Future storage will be solid state memory and probably look a lot like credit/smart cards.
Just a guess, but likely.

I do agree about the VHS Vs Betamax being unusual and the possibility of Blu-Ray and HD-DVD co-exsiting for some time, as both camps are set to release there products this year.
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