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Topic ClosedREMOVE RATING-ONLY-REVIEWS?
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Poll Question: REMOVE RATING-ONLY-REVIEWS?
Poll Choice Votes Poll Statistics
81 [71.05%]
25 [21.93%]
8 [7.02%]
This topic is closed, no new votes accepted

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NotAProghead View Drop Down
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Points: 7973 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 05 2006 at 18:24
Originally posted by ivan_2068 ivan_2068 wrote:

If another collaborator, Prog Reviewer or just a reviewer takes his time to make a 100 words review explaining why he gives 1 or 2 stars, no problem, it's ok, that's his opinion and he was honest plus respectful enough to explain his perspective.

But if a guy called Tamtam, who never made a single review, and rates every album except Uriah Heep (Which I love) and VDGG,  with one star... and without any review gives two stars to the album in which I worked so much it pisses me.

In this cases I believe all my job was in vain...

I don't think your job is in vain even in such cases. People, often visiting the site, see who write good reviews. So believe me, your opinion and opinions of many other reviewers are much more important than Tamtam's ratings. Personally, I don't care for Top 100, Top 200 etc at all. But good reviews are often helpful.

Tamtams come and go. I believe most people are giving honest ratings.



Edited by NotAProghead
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Moatilliatta View Drop Down
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Points: 3083 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 06 2006 at 00:52
I'm seeing more occurances of this problem. They may not necessarily need to remove them, just not count them in the average.
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Points: 173 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 06 2006 at 01:12
Remove them from the algorithm that ranks albums. And I welcome non-
english speakers to review in their native language.

And I'd love to have an administrator list on this thread the top 100
albums without non-review ratings, even if it isn't changed on the
homepage.

Edited by AngleofRepose
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Points: 2771 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 06 2006 at 01:22
Originally posted by Easy Livin Easy Livin wrote:

Originally posted by W.Chuck W.Chuck wrote:

I would like to know what the admins think about that, they wouldn't have to delete every review!

I have said many times that I'd like to see the rating without reviews excluded, or at least diminished in terms of their impact on favorites calculations.

(I delete very few reviews!Wink)

I dislike them very strongly ... and want them out now, actually ...

I'd like to see PA assemble some language specialists to translate the reviews from the main languages (basically Spanish, French, Italian are the main ones I see) ... which I hope would put an end to the main doubts that m@x and Ron have ...

And just for the record, I don't really care about the average rating, and Top 100 lists, I just think this practice is a waste of time and spoils part of the impact of the site ...
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razifa View Drop Down
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Points: 224 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 06 2006 at 03:05

I have nothing against rating-only-reviewers but I disagree the algorithm of calculation. I Think there should be an algorithm that give a higher weight to those who write a coherent review, and penalize the rating-only-reviewer giving them a lower weight on the result.

 
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Bj-1 View Drop Down
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Points: 31646 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 06 2006 at 06:18

Originally posted by TheProgtologist TheProgtologist wrote:

I don't think old ratings without reviews should be deleted,but ratings without reviews ought to be stopped right now.

Agree! Plus deleting some of the current 1* rating on some albums (like all those on DT's 'Images & Words' for example. I believe that 80% of those ratings are from active DT-Haters)

Originally posted by razifa razifa wrote:

I have nothing against rating-only-reviewers but I disagree the algorithm of calculation. I Think there should be an algorithm that give a higher weight to those who write a coherent review, and penalize the rating-only-reviewer giving them a lower weight on the result.

 

That is also an excellent idea!



Edited by Bj-1
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cold103 View Drop Down
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Points: 297 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 06 2006 at 07:00
Well, I voted no because I rate albums and don't write a review most of the time. Even just 50 albums is a lot to write reviews on. I respect everyone's views though.
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Phil View Drop Down
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Points: 1881 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 06 2006 at 07:09
Maybe I'm too naive, but I can't see why anyone would want to submit a rating, with or without a review, solely for the purpose of manipulating the Top 100 in some way..c'mon folks, get real......
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Points: 1835 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 06 2006 at 07:16

Who was it who originally suggested that ratings without an accompanying review should be allowed but excluded from the calculation of the Top 100?

Seems a good idea. Those who cannot write a review or do not want to write a review can still leave their 'vote' for all to see on an album's page. But it would not influence the Top 100.

 

 
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MikeEnRegalia View Drop Down
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Points: 21632 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 06 2006 at 09:44
Originally posted by Bj-1 Bj-1 wrote:

Originally posted by TheProgtologist TheProgtologist wrote:

I don't think old ratings without reviews should be deleted,but ratings without reviews ought to be stopped right now.

Agree! Plus deleting some of the current 1* rating on some albums (like all those on DT's 'Images & Words' for example. I believe that 80% of those ratings are from active DT-Haters)

That's not possible. Who should decide which ratings are to be deleted? Either remove them all, or remove none. OR change the algorithm (see below).

Originally posted by Bj-1 Bj-1 wrote:

Originally posted by razifa razifa wrote:

I have nothing against rating-only-reviewers but I disagree the algorithm of calculation. I Think there should be an algorithm that give a higher weight to those who write a coherent review, and penalize the rating-only-reviewer giving them a lower weight on the result.

That is also an excellent idea!

Why give them any weight at all? As long as a rating without review has any effect on the ranking, people will file these ratings in order to manipulate the ranking. The only way to stop this is to remove the effect on the ranking. 
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horza View Drop Down
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Points: 2530 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 06 2006 at 09:56
ratings are opinions - if i want to check out details pertaining to an album i read a mix of reveiws
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W.Chuck View Drop Down
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Points: 606 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 06 2006 at 18:13
I think the algorithm is quite good and it doesn't have to be changed, it is usefull and not senseless.

Furthermore, I don't think rating with 1*, e.g. those of Images&Words, shouldn't be deleted. It is just a guess to say that everyone of those people hates DT, don't forget, so much you and other people love the album, other opinions are different!

I said it before (when I noticed the admins won't delete all the rating-only-reviews) that those ratings simply couln't be counted!
I have nothing against the possibility, so everyone, who is not able to write an english review or is simply to lazy can still go one giving rating without writing a review, but at least abusing would have been stopped!

But keep in mind, do you consider it as fair if there are people, who use their FREE-TIME to write a review to inform the other people about and album and others write nothing and give it a rating only?

I like the idea with translators, Trotsky mentioned, but it's hard to get people doing it free!

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Points: 19557 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 06 2006 at 21:57

Originally posted by Phil Phil wrote:

Maybe I'm too naive, but I can't see why anyone would want to submit a rating, with or without a review, solely for the purpose of manipulating the Top 100 in some way..c'mon folks, get real......

Check this names:

  1. Amarok (Even voted twice in Close to the Edge - Gives all Yes mateial 1 star).
  2. Zabriedskidpoint (Gives one star to anything exept Pink Floyd),
  3. Jd (Only rates high Prog Metal)
  4. Tamtam (Only rates high Uriah Heep and VDGG 1 or 2 stars for all the rest).
  5. Mariscal (New guy, 1 point for Genesis albums, 5 points for King Crimson)

Look at the polls you'll find that there's a Yes fan who probably has an Internet Café because even in the single option polls you find up to 1,400 votes when only 150 persons read the poll.

Look at : http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=17053& amp;KW=Ivan%5F2068 299 votes for The Yes Album, there are not 50% of habitual members in the forum.

Don't be naive, people love to manipulate.

Iván

 
            
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Points: 431 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 06 2006 at 22:33
I wrote a few reviews, but not all I wanted. The problem: language. I'm not able to make a good review in English, so I voted a lot of albums without reviewing them. That's the reason I say "No" in the poll. I would vote "Yes" if I could write reviews in my own language, I know this is problematic, or almost imposible, but I think it has good points too. A lot of people I know don't enter in the site because it's all in english, the majority of members of the web write in English (there is a lot of American guys), so I think there wiil not be a great problem some of the reviews in Spanish or any other language.
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Points: 118 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 07 2006 at 00:04
There are ratings and “ratings”, there are reviews and “reviews” and there are stats and “stats”.  Hence, “everything is relative”.  The principal component on the algorithm is the visitor. Visitors are the real customer of this web site, and they deserve clear and plausible stats. Eventually, they have the last word in order to purchase music. For instance; I wouldn’t buy THE MARS VOLTA’s “Frances the Mute”, even though it has been confirmed as PA’s “Top 5 Albums Of 2005”. Like I mentioned before … “Everything is relative”. Consequently, I didn’t vote in this poll, although I do care…

Edited by Lateralus_66
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NotAProghead View Drop Down
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Points: 7973 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 07 2006 at 00:29

Originally posted by R_DeNIRO R_DeNIRO wrote:

I wrote a few reviews, but not all I wanted. The problem: language. I'm not able to make a good review in English, so I voted a lot of albums without reviewing them. That's the reason I say "No" in the poll. I would vote "Yes" if I could write reviews in my own language, I know this is problematic, or almost imposible, but I think it has good points too. A lot of people I know don't enter in the site because it's all in english, the majority of members of the web write in English (there is a lot of American guys), so I think there wiil not be a great problem some of the reviews in Spanish or any other language.

As I see here, you write in English better than some American guys.
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Points: 606 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 07 2006 at 05:09
Originally posted by R_DeNIRO R_DeNIRO wrote:

I wrote a few reviews, but not all I wanted. The problem: language. I'm not able to make a good review in English, so I voted a lot of albums without reviewing them. That's the reason I say "No" in the poll. I would vote "Yes" if I could write reviews in my own language, I know this is problematic, or almost imposible, but I think it has good points too. A lot of people I know don't enter in the site because it's all in english, the majority of members of the web write in English (there is a lot of American guys), so I think there wiil not be a great problem some of the reviews in Spanish or any other language.


I think it should be allowed to write in your own language! People who interest for an album could read reviews in english, spanish, italian, french, german...!

You still have the english reviews and some in other languages, for the people who can't really understand english very well-THEY SHOULD BE INFORMED TOO-!

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Points: 15585 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 07 2006 at 06:43

The English only rule is for practical purposes. We do not have moderators for other languages.

From what I know of M@X's views, he is strongly committed to continuing to make the site as inclusive as possible. I do not therefore believe ratings without reviews will be banned.

Taking that as a given, it's a question of coming up with the best ways of allowing them to be accepted, while addressing many of the members legitimate concerns about manipulative ratings.

Options are reducing their "value" in the calculations, showing separate averages for ratings only reviews etc. What's the preference? Are there other options?
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W.Chuck View Drop Down
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Points: 606 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 07 2006 at 07:10
What's the admins opinion about NOT COUNTING them?

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Points: 10063 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 07 2006 at 07:52
i voted yes

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