Nursery Cryme vs Fragile

No, it isn't and I proved it, but if you want I'll quote it again:

So the author for 25 Years is THE PUBLISHER FOR THE UK LAW, as clear as water.

This is called a legal fiction, but it's as valid as if Atlantic Records, Cotillion and Irving would had written the songs and wrote the lyrics.

This was the LITERAL quote of THE COPYRIGHT ACT OF UK, there's no doubt who should be taken as the author, please, you can understand that.

the Yesman's Museum quote you made is a joke.

1. Richard Cromelin may be a reviewer of Rolling Stones, but still I trust much more in any Yes official information than in this.
2. Yes, the copyright sign in 1971 Roundabout doesn't make sense, as it doesn't make sense the difference between two songs suposedly copyrighted in 1971.}
3. And even less sense makes why in hell all the FRAGILE album was copyrighted in 1972.:
4.  * ©1972 Irving, BMI.
   ©1972 Cotillion, BMI
   Used by permission. All rights reserved. http://yesworld.com/lyrics/Fragile.html
5. Unless Roundabout wasc opyrighted as a solo in 1971 and Fragile as an album copyrighted in 1972, because it's evident it was copyrighted in 1972 (Don't you agree???)
6. BTW, your counting is wrong, because you must count the year recorded as N° 1, so a record copyrighted on 1971 will expire Jan 1° 1996.
7. But for 1'000, 000 cents, Why in hell every Yes official publication considers Fragile released in 1972, I must still give credit to that.

Iván

Iván

BTW: Saw the excellent and artistic photos of the FRAGILE artwork...really impressive.

But no copyright or Publication data  can be read or even seen in the covers, so what's your point???

BTW 2: I want to thank especially Micky for keeping the level of the discussion and not starting to insinuate I'm being dishonest or that all the lawyers are dishonest.

But Micky, don't over estimate me:

Micky wrote:

Wrong data?..... I think you know better..... if I was wrong.  You would have found that out already, it would have made your case much easier.

No Micky, there's lot of Pre Internet inforrmation very hard to find, even when I tried I couldn't find the official date of fundation of Topographic Music Inc, only used logic and Gonah confirmed the date at the end of 1973.

Even when I added the Peruvian band Traffic sound to PA I had to recieve an art cover  fax of an album  from an ex hippie uncle to certify the correct songlist, because all the Internet info was wrong.

And I live in Perú, so imagine how hard is to analyze legal info from UK in a different language than my native one and find 1971 charts for me.

But thanks again

Cheers

Iván

ivan_2068 wrote: Richard Cromelin may be a reviewer of Rolling Stones, but still I trust much more in any Yes official information than in this. Yes, the copyright sign in 1971 Roundabout doesn't make sense, as it doesn't make sense the difference between two songs suposedly copyrighted in 1971.} And even less sense makes why in hell all the FRAGILE album was copyrighted in 1972.:  * ©1972 Irving, BMI. ©1972 Cotillion, BMI Used by permission. All rights reserved. http://yesworld.com/lyrics/Fragile.html Unless Roundabout wasc opyrighted as a solo in 1971 and Fragile as an album copyrighted in 1972, because it's evident it was copyrighted in 1972 (Don't you agree???) BTW, your counting is wrong, because you must count the year recorded as N° 1, so a record copyrighted on 1971 will expire Jan 1° 1996. But for 1'000, 000 cents, Why in hell every Yes official publication considers Fragile released in 1972, I must still give credit to that. Iván

Now that spirits are calm, this thread is less stressing , so I'lll change to blue due to Dotro's comment.  I learned thatthe use of  different colors is necesary when there are too many replies.

Answeres to the above:

1. A reviewer usually tries not to make such mistakes, at least thats what I think. You just said the Magical word "TRIES" but trying is not always enough, don't say he's mistaken, but it's possible and I believe still in the official data.
2. It may not make sense, but that information exists. I agree. 
3. ^ I agree
4. ^ Now this really puzzles me, it's obvious that Roundabout was released as a single before FRAGILE and for that reason copyrighted in 197, while FRAGILE is copyrighted (C) in 1972...A good support for my claim that no lawyer would be so stupid to allow a publication without a full copyright, despite the green artwork of Roundabout is terrible and doesn't even includes the photo of Rick Wakeman but the photo of Tony Kaye (Poor Tony )
5. NOTE: Something similar happened in another Yes release, to be precise "Time and a Word" where Peter Banks played, but you can see the photo of Steve Howe in the cover, who was not yet a YES member,  Seems Yes was not very carefull with their artworks before Roger Dean started working with them.
6. So if Roundabout was copyrighted 1971, other songs of the album could have been copyrighted then and the whole album could have been published in 1971. No, we have agreed at this point, the official (C) copyright of Fragile only appears since 192, in 1971 we only find a (P) that we know is not enough to protect an album.
7. My counting is based on my understanding of this part of the law.

   • 15. Copyright in the typographical arrangement of a published edition expires at the end of the period of 25 years from the end of the calendar year in which the edition was first published. Yes, but you are making a mistake, you should count 1971 as Year one so it's (71, 72. 73, 74, 75, 76, 77, 78, 79, 80, 81, 82, 83, 82, 85, 86, 87, 88, 89, 90, 91, 92, 93, 94. 95, to complete the 25 years protectiion) so it expired in Jan 1° 1976.....This is because they count every copyright of 1971 as made in the same year, dates and months don't count, it's a general rule, here works exactly the same)

   • If you consider end of 1971, 25 solid years after that will be end of 1996. That ensures that everone gets the 25 years minimum, regardless of the month in which it was issued and it makes sense to me. But you still have to count 1971 as year one, look up. ^^^

8. I don't know, somebody may write to Yes and ask them, maybe there is a legal issue behind this, who knows! The legal issues are clea the problem is not there, even though I'm not an expert in UK law, the copyright law is made according to the URUGUAY Reunion in almost all civilized world (Perú didn't signed that convention, that's why we use (P) as "Pendiente" (Patent Pending)

The real problem is that in this Booklet they mention twice that FRAGILE wareleased in 1972, the Official Yes Soite and the albums vs The 1971 chats.

All this contradictory information is driving me mad, as a lawyer I wanto see that laws work perfectly, but seems things are not so clear.

BTW: USA aplication to the law is different to UK, because they use the anti Terrorism Act to protect the rights of the companies since 9/11.

This is a tactic of RIAA to allow them to explore our computers (To search for MP3) supported by some Congressmen who were part of a lobby.

Iván:

If you remember you once referred to AllMusic web site. Look what I've found there. I am 100% sure that it is wrong, because Atlantic SD7211 LP is released in 1972, I have the LP myslef, and at the same page the release date is Jan 4, 1972. But look here:

Releases

Year Type Label Catalog # 1994 CD Atlantic 82667 1994 CS Atlantic 82667 1971 LP Atlantic 7211 1995 CD Atlantic 7567826672   CD Atlantic 19132-2   CS Atlantic 19132-4   CD Atlantic 82524