Is Punk all that bad?

To call The Police an outright punk band is a complete misconception. They began as a punk band only because it was fashionable at the time. All were jazz-influenced musicians looking to break through to the mainstream, and punk was just a way to go about it. At heart, they were a catchy pop band with amazing jazz-influenced chops who knew how to write a damn good song. Basically, the only punk thing about them was the energy in most of their music. Their true ambition can be seen in their later albums and songs, such as "Spirits in the Material World," "Invisible Sun," "Behind My Camel," and "Synchronicity II." Sure, Outlandos De Amor was fresh and energetic, but were the songs really all that punk? The attitude was certainly not there, and that is the true soul of punk, I believe.

 

 OK. I see that no one here ever heard bands like LAGWAGON or STRUNG OUT (especialy LAGWAGON). Try listening some of their songs, then come back here and dare to say that punk can't be progressive.

 Joey Cape (LAGWAGON's lead singer) is THE one of the greatest rock musicians alive. He can play guitar, drums and keyboard, and on top of all that read some of his lyrics if you want poetry. He wrote over 150 songs in bands like LAGWAGON and BAD ASTRONAUT (a mixture of jazz, punk, emo...), not to mention that LAGWAGON technicaly could seriously f**k up the most of the progressive rock bands today (excluding DREAM THEATER who are f**kin' masters).

Derrick Plourde (RIP), former LAGWAGONs drummer... What can I say, just listen the following songs: RIFLE, MOVE THE CAR, TRAGIC VISION, FOILED AGAIN, etc. BTW, he was one of the fastest single pedal drummers ever (song PARENT'S GUIDE TO LIVING).

Other members of LAGWAGON, Jesse Buglione (bass), Chris Rest and Chriss Flippin (guitars) are so technical, fast, inovative, that I almost sh*t my pants when I heard them for the first time.

 So, before anyone else here say that punk can't be progressive or that punk is dull, stupid, sh*tty or something like that, please listen to LAGWAGON or STRUNG OUT (prefer LAGWAGON).

Thank you! Regards!

thats what the website said... but i doubt the clash said "hey we hate prog lets make a band that is based on how we hate it!"
that website is probably a immature site created bt some angsty 16 yr old british scenester

Dick Heath wrote: ANDREW wrote: Absolutely not! Sorry but i don't agree with you. Sorry Andrew, such comments piss me off and provoke the reaction:  you haven't heard enough prog or understand what it is about!  Prog fans shouldn't be so close minded - prog musicians aren't: Live in Concert [Live]   The Stranglers & Friends  (Artist) 1. Introduction - Jet Black, The Stranglers 2. (Get A) Grip (On Yourself) - Hazel O'Connor, Robert Smith, The Stranglers 3. Hanging Around - Hazel O'Connor, Robert Smith, The Stranglers 4. Tank - Robert Fripp, Peter Hammill, The Stranglers 5. Threatened - Robert Fripp, The Stranglers 6. Toiler on the Sea - Phil Daniels, Robert Fripp, The Stranglers 7. Raven - Basil Gabbidon, Peter Hammill, The Stranglers 8. Dead Loss Angeles - Phil Daniels, Wilko Johnson, The Stranglers 9. Nice 'N' Sleazy - Basil Gabbidon, The Stranglers, Nicky Tesco, Nik Turner 10. Bring on the Nubiles - Richard Jobson, Wilko Johnson, The Stranglers 11. Peaches - Ian Dury, Wilko Johnson, Davey Payne, The Stranglers, Toyah Wilcox 12. Bear Cage - Ian Dury, Mathieu Hartley, Wilko Johnson, Davey Payne, The Stranglers, 13. Duchess - The Stranglers, Toyah Wilcox 14. No More Heroes - Richard Jobson, The Stranglers 15. Five Minutes - Richard Jobson, The Stranglers, Larry Wallis 16. Something Better Change - Steve Hillage, The Stranglers, Toyah Wilcox 17. Down in the Sewer - Jake Burns, Jake Burns & The Big Wheel, Phil Daniels, Ian Dury, Robert Fripp, Basil Gabbidon, Peter Hammill, The Stranglers

I have that record. It's great! Nik Turner (Hawkwind) is on some songs also. Also check out 'The Men in Black' by THe Stranglers. Perfect blending of prog and punk.

JeezY wrote: Please correct me if im wrong, but did you say punk was created..against prog?

Not only against Prog but mainly, also against the sofisticate complexity that Rock had acquired since the early years, but their main target has always been Progressive Rock.

It's obvious that Punk was born as an ANTI movement, this is called hatred here and in China:

The music scene of the mid-70s was and artistic wasteland. The rock hierarchy of the Stones, Who, Clapton, Floyd and Genesis had become increasingly irrelevant and remote from peoples everyday lives, creating the perfect climate for a back-to-basics youth explosion. If the Sex Pistols and their snarling frontman Johnny Rotten were the wired up catalysts for change, others soon followed in their footsteps as a generation of three chord wonders gave a timely reaction to the 'hippie' meanderings of the old musical order. http://pages.eidosnet.co.uk/johnnymoped/punk/webpunk/webpunk historypage_britishpunkrock_page1.html

Clear enough.

Punk rock was also a reaction against tendencies that had overtaken popular music in the 1970s including what the punks saw as superficial "disco" music and bombastic forms of heavy metal, progressive rock and "arena rock." Punk also rejected the remnants of the hippie counterculture of the 1960s. Bands such as Jefferson Airplane, which had survived the 1960s, were regarded by most punks as having become fatuous and an embarrassment to their former claims of radicality. Eric Clapton's appearance in television beer ads in the mid-1970s was often cited as an example of how the icons of 1960s rock had literally sold themselves to the system they once opposed. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Punk_rock

A neutral position also is aware of this tendency.

Punk culture as it is seen today started in the mid 1970s as a movement or rebellion against some styles of music which existed at the time such as Prog Rock and Heavy Metal whose stars were seen as out of touch with their fans. Followers of punk culture developed their own, dystopian styles of music, which were originally like underground,  minimalist rock and roll. The Sex Pistols and The Ramones are well known examples of Punk rock bands of this era http://7search.com/scripts/security/visit.asp?id=10014441&am p;am p;am p;am p;qs=urlid%3D13952900%26affiliateid%3D41327%26keyword%3Dpunk %2Brock%26sk%3Dpunk%2Brock%2Bhistory%26s%3Dpls%26u%3Dhttp%25 3a%252f%252fwww%2Eabcsearch%2Ecom%26rank%3D2%26rid%3Ditcg%2D 464%26sd%3D12%252f28%252f05%2B21%253a38%253a29%2E213

More of the same.

Punk Rock. Punk Rock was directly opposite to anything thing that progressive rock stood for. While Progressive bands preferred long, winding "compositions," Punk Rock were extremely short, simple songs. A classic example of this is the debut album from New York Punk legends, The Ramones, whose 1976 debut album clocked in with 14 songs at 28 minutes (Jethro Tull's Thick as A Brick, which many consider a progressive rock masterwork, takes approximately 50 minutes). Prog Rock specialized in complex, melodic sequences. Most Punk Rock groups, on the other hand only knew four chords, and the overall emphasis of the song was on rhythm. The Punks also made their displeasure with the progressive movement, which they regarded as old and self indulgent, widely known,. The single most famous example of the "punk additude" on Progressive was done by Johnny Rotten of the Sex Pistols who regularly wore a T-Shirt on stage saying "I Hate Pink Floyd." The message began to resonate. http://www3.niu.edu/newsplace/nnprogressive.html

It's clear, Prog Rock is the main target of Punk.

BTW: Rashikal,  Punk77 is not written by a British teenager,  in this moment is almost  the official site of Punk, so what they wrote against Prog (which I quoted) can be seen as their official position.

And as you have seen before, not the Clash, but Johnny Rotten from The Sex Pistols made his appearences wearing an "I hate Pink Floyd" T-Shirt, something that is widely known.

Iván

Edited by ivan_2068

PIL is a very very good band. Second Edition is incredible and very proggy, at least to my ears.

Hemispheres wrote: [ Johnny Rotten has admitted to not hating prog infact he was influenced by the likes of Can,Van Der Graff Generator and others he also admitted to liking Pink Floyd and being good friends with Dave Gilmour and saying that that shirt was a joke i also heard that he likes yes Another prove he's a sad poser, he shouted he hated Pink Floyd (Despite he loved that band) just to keep an image. And he recruited the talentless Sid Vicious who couldn't even play a note just because he was good for the image. What a mediocre poser.

Iván

ivan_2068 wrote: Hemispheres wrote: [ Johnny Rotten has admitted to not hating prog infact he was influenced by the likes of Can,Van Der Graff Generator and others he also admitted to liking Pink Floyd and being good friends with Dave Gilmour and saying that that shirt was a joke i also heard that he likes yes Another prove he's a sad poser, he shouted he hated Pink Floyd (Despite he loved that band) just to keep an image. And he recruited the talentless Sid Vicious who couldn't even play a note just because he was good for the image. What a mediocre poser. Iván

Oh well it doesnt really matter he made some great music with Public Image ltd witch was pretty much a reaction to what happened with the sex pistols and i dont think john hired vicious for his image because they were good friends before the pistols i think mclaren turned viscuos into the image of the band so i think mclaren is to blame mostly

JeezY wrote: ivan_2068 wrote: Hey guys, Punk was created as a reaction against Prog', all their official sites  bash Prog', they are against anything lñonger han three minutes or three chords. I never saw a prog', blues, jazz or pop site wasting their space in writting against the other genres. Yes in forums there's a lot of that, but never in an official site. When Dinosaurs Roamed The Earth... Know thine enemy. While Glam at least was proving some light relief from bands who had grown massive like the Stones, Who and Led Zeppelin there were an even more pretentious wave of bands who espoused the view that rock was serious and who were dominating the serious weekly music papers. Prog-Rock was  mostly listened to by grubby polytechnic students who wore flares and dufflecoats and never had any girlfriends and who would sit cross-legged at gigs on the floor bonged out of their brains. They would gather in bedsits drinking coffee out of chipped mugs and ponder the meaning of the universe while listening to Yes, Van Der Graaf Generator, Camel, Gentle Giant, Caravan, Greenslade and a thousand others. These people knew what they wanted ..lots of windswept guitar histrionics, gushing key boards, lyrics full of mystical allusions and song titles bearing no relation to the music and almost as long as the music itself ! As you read these you can see why punk had to happen. Weighed own by the weight of its own pretensions the scene was set for someone to point out that the emperor in fact had no clothes on. Read on and learn the horrible truth.......... What serious site would write this crap to promote themselves as the salvation of themusical world? If it wasn't for forums, probably you won't see the word Punk in Progressive sites, because we are sure enough of our taste to worry abouit the rest and waste valuable space in criticizing the rest of the world. They call us the enemy, most of us don't even care enough about them to consider Punk as an enemy. Genesis   Were a full blown prog-rock band, inspired by musical bluster and arcane philosophies, capable of churning out as much barking  nonsense as any of their early Seventies contemporaries, including the magnificently daft Yes. Under the direction of the consummately eccentric Peter Gabriel, Genesis indulged  in all manner of theatrical buffoonery and special effects. While the group turned on the pomp and pyrotechnics, Gabriel would nonce around the stage in a variety of costumes as illustrated. The peak of their absolute foolishness came with the Lamb Lies Down On Broadway, a virtually incomprehensible narrative about spiritual awakening spread over a double album. beloved of sixth formers with long hair and greycoats who had too much time on their hands. Emerson, Lake And Palmer.  Even the name sounds like a gang of lawyers or estate agents.  They were prog rocks most vulgar trawler men. Their first public appearance, at the Isle of Wight Festival was prefaced by a thunderous cannonade loud enough to wake the long time dead. This was an appropriate fanfare for a group that would be become internationally famous for its bombastic extravagance. ELP produced the ugliest music the world  has yet to endure "Pictures at an Exhibition", Brain Salad Surgery and even a triple live album of dross. Everything they did as dragged own by the weight of their own bloated pretensions, their vivid idiocy, the stupifying grossness that was their unique contribution to early seventies rock. Tipping over a Hammond and stabbing it with a knife to make distorted sounds does not excitement make. For the punter so far back he can see f**k all it might as well be a baboon jumping down on the keyboards.  Unable to come up with anything resembling a decent tune, they regularly vandalised the classics sending several dead Europeans spinning in their graves. The ridiculousness of their music is just so far fetched that you can't help but laugh and wonder at Mark P and Danny Baker who praised them . God ELP were stupid. Yes . Like Genesis they managed to produce an extra b*****d son to terrorise good taste in the shape of Rick Wakeman. Without doubt the stars of the progressive genre if only for the sheer long windedness of everything they have ever done. The icon for the era has to their magnum opus Tales from Topographic Oceans luckily they made every album identifiable with the godawful Roger Dean designed covers so there was no way you could buy one by accident and you could warn your mum. If by chance you do want to buy them its a credit to Yes that you can buy their whole back catalogue in secondhand record stores for about £5 as people realizing later on in life what sh*te they had bought turned them in their thousands. Topographic Oceans had all of prog rocks defining characteristics in spades.   http://www.punk77.co.uk/punkhistory/whendinosaursromaedtheea rth.htm  How this a$$holes dare to talk about drugs in prog?? Or stupid costumes? Or idiocy? What serious musical site will criticize a band to show the world how good they supposedly are? Punk is in essense anti prog, how can you mix both and believe in the possibility of Prog Punk? Iván Please correct me if im wrong, but did you say punk was created..against prog?

I think that punk is born against prog...but also that it helped the modern music scene to be so disgusting!!!! 

It seems to me that though The Mars Volta's songs may contain certain punky bits and certain proggy bits, there aren't really any parts that are both at the same time.