| Author |
 Topic Search  Topic Options
|
Cygnus X-1 
Forum Senior Member
Joined: July 06 2005
Location: United Kingdom
Status: Offline
Points: 653
|
 Topic: Philosophy
Posted: December 29 2005 at 07:18 |
OK I thought we should have a topic about this subject in general seeing as people like to disscuss these types of issues and seeing as we are all intelegent prog listeners we should have a view on these age old questions involving life. I'll come up with a new question each week.
OK so this weeks question is one that people have been trying to answer for many years:
If a tree falls in the woods and no one is around to hear it, does it make a sound?
Edited by Cygnus X-1
|
|
|
 |
Tony R
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator / Retired Admin
Joined: July 16 2004
Location: UK
Status: Offline
Points: 11979
|
Posted: December 29 2005 at 07:21 |
You mean:
"If a tree falls in the woods,and nobody witnesses it does it make a sound?"
Ok,so you edited it!
The answer is yes!!
How could the answer be anything other....?
Edited by Tony R
|
|
Cygnus X-1
Forum Senior Member
Joined: July 06 2005
Location: United Kingdom
Status: Offline
Points: 653
|
Posted: December 29 2005 at 07:22 |
 i know i edited it 
|
|
|
|
Tony R
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator / Retired Admin
Joined: July 16 2004
Location: UK
Status: Offline
Points: 11979
|
Posted: December 29 2005 at 07:27 |
|
|
|
BaldFriede
Prog Reviewer
Joined: June 02 2005
Location: Germany
Status: Offline
Points: 10266
|
Posted: December 29 2005 at 07:29 |
 Tony R wrote:
You mean:
"If a tree falls in the woods,and nobody witnesses it does it make a sound?"
Ok,so you edited it!
The answer is yes!!
How could the answer be anything other....?
|
So how do you know? You have not been around. You just derive that from having seen other trees fall and having heard the sound that makes. Let's phrase the question a little differently: "If a neutron in the nucleus of an atom decays and turns into a proton, does it emit an electron when no-one is there to observe it?" Anyone who knows a bit about quantum mechanics will tell you that it indeed makes a big difference whether there is an observer or not.
|
 BaldJean and I; I am the one in blue.
|
|
Manunkind
Forum Senior Member
Joined: February 02 2005
Location: Poland
Status: Offline
Points: 2373
|
Posted: December 29 2005 at 07:38 |
|
Mmm... quantum mechanics...
|
|
"In war there is no time to teach or learn Zen. Carry a strong stick. Bash your attackers." - Zen Master Ikkyu Sojun
|
|
Tony R
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator / Retired Admin
Joined: July 16 2004
Location: UK
Status: Offline
Points: 11979
|
Posted: December 29 2005 at 07:39 |
BaldFriede wrote:
Tony R wrote:
You mean:
"If a tree falls in the woods,and nobody witnesses it does it make a sound?"
Ok,so you edited it!
The answer is yes!!
How could the answer be anything other....?
|
So how do you know? You have not been around. You just derive that from having seen other trees fall and having heard the sound that makes. Let's phrase the question a little differently: "If a neutron in the nucleus of an atom decays and turns into a proton, does it emit an electron when no-one is there to observe it?" Anyone who knows a bit about quantum mechanics will tell you that it indeed makes a big difference whether there is an observer or not.
|
The question is fatally flawed and presumptious.It presumes that the whole of nature dances to Man's tune amongst other simplistic mistakes.The "Laws Of Nature" predate Man exponentially.
Where to start?
Hmm,man is not the only living thing that can hear sounds.
Science,observation and experience tell us that the tree makes a sound when it hits the forest floor.Basic physics,very basic physics.
And turning the question to one about quantum physics is absurd in the extreme!
Hello again,BF.....
|
|
Logos
Prog Reviewer
Joined: March 08 2005
Location: Finland
Status: Offline
Points: 2383
|
Posted: December 29 2005 at 07:41 |
Tony R wrote:
"If a tree falls in the woods,and nobody witnesses it does it make a sound?" |
If a tree falls in the woods and nobody witnesses it, why should anyone care?
|
|
Tony R
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator / Retired Admin
Joined: July 16 2004
Location: UK
Status: Offline
Points: 11979
|
Posted: December 29 2005 at 07:49 |
Logos wrote:
Tony R wrote:
"If a tree falls in the woods,and nobody witnesses it does it make a sound?" |
If a tree falls in the woods and nobody witnesses it, why should anyone care? |
Because I dropped my Rolex under the ****ing tree! 
|
|
BaldFriede
Prog Reviewer
Joined: June 02 2005
Location: Germany
Status: Offline
Points: 10266
|
Posted: December 29 2005 at 07:53 |
Tony R wrote:
BaldFriede wrote:
Tony R wrote:
You mean:
"If a tree falls in the woods,and nobody witnesses it does it make a sound?"
Ok,so you edited it!
The answer is yes!!
How could the answer be anything other....?
|
So how do you know? You have not been around. You just derive that from having seen other trees fall and having heard the sound that makes. Let's phrase the question a little differently: "If a neutron in the nucleus of an atom decays and turns into a proton, does it emit an electron when no-one is there to observe it?" Anyone who knows a bit about quantum mechanics will tell you that it indeed makes a big difference whether there is an observer or not.
|
The question is fatally flawed and presumptious.It presumes that the whole of nature dances to Man's tune amongst other simplistic mistakes.The "Laws Of Nature" predate Man exponentially.
Where to start?
Hmm,man is not the only living thing that can hear sounds.
Science,observation and experience tell us that the tree makes a sound when it hits the forest floor.Basic physics,very basic physics.
And turning the question to one about quantum physics is absurd in the extreme!
Hello again,BF..... |
Not at all. Quantum mechanics DO work like that, but you could hardly say it dances to the tune of man. The important thing about being observer is that to observe you have to interfere with the incident in some way (the light rays and sound waves, also the rush of air created by the falling tree, are being observed by you, and by that they are being absorbed and can't continue in that direction anymore.
Edited by BaldFriede
|
BaldJean and I; I am the one in blue.
|
|
Tony R
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator / Retired Admin
Joined: July 16 2004
Location: UK
Status: Offline
Points: 11979
|
Posted: December 29 2005 at 07:56 |
BF wrote:
The important thing about being observer is that to observe you have to interfere with the incident in some way |
Bugger that clever clogs...where's my Rolex then....
|
|
Jim Garten
Special Collaborator
Retired Admin & Razor Guru
Joined: February 02 2004
Location: South England
Status: Offline
Points: 14693
|
Posted: December 29 2005 at 08:07 |
I think the quantum mechanic nicked it
|
Jon Lord 1941 - 2012
|
|
BaldFriede
Prog Reviewer
Joined: June 02 2005
Location: Germany
Status: Offline
Points: 10266
|
Posted: December 29 2005 at 08:16 |
Jim Garten wrote:
I think the quantum mechanic nicked it |
Darn, I always knew you couldn't trust a mechanic who repairs only a quantum of what he is supposed to do.
|
BaldJean and I; I am the one in blue.
|
|
oliverstoned
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: March 26 2004
Location: France
Status: Offline
Points: 6308
|
Posted: December 29 2005 at 08:16 |
|
I think that the idea behind this question is :
"is the world and its phenomenons (like the tree's noise falling i.e) exists by itself or ONLY through consciousness?"
A variation of this question would be:
"is time exists by itself, or is it just related to consciousness?"
Edited by oliverstoned
|
|
BaldFriede
Prog Reviewer
Joined: June 02 2005
Location: Germany
Status: Offline
Points: 10266
|
Posted: December 29 2005 at 08:19 |
oliverstoned wrote:
I think that the idea behind this question is :
"is the world and its phenomenons (like the tree's noise falling i.e) exists by itself or ONLY through consciousness?"
A variation of this question would be:
"is time exists by itself, or is it just related to consciousness?" |
Which reminds me of a quote by Augustinus about the nature of time: "If you don't ask me I know it, but if I have to explain it I can't say it".
|
BaldJean and I; I am the one in blue.
|
|
oliverstoned
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: March 26 2004
Location: France
Status: Offline
Points: 6308
|
Posted: December 29 2005 at 08:34 |
|
I like much Augustinus's conception of time (which was very original at the time) was that time doesn't exists cause past is gone, future is not yet, and ther's only a unseizable present. So what's Augustinus concludes, is that time is only related to human consciousness.
It's like space infinity is something you can symbolize by a mathematic symbol, but that the human mind, -in its normal state of consciousness at least- can't even envisage, as it's beyond human possibilities.
|
|
Jim Garten
Special Collaborator
Retired Admin & Razor Guru
Joined: February 02 2004
Location: South England
Status: Offline
Points: 14693
|
Posted: December 29 2005 at 08:36 |
oliverstoned wrote:
I like much Augustinus's conception of time (which was very original at the time) was that time doesn't exists cause past is gone, future is not yet, and ther's only a unseizable present. So what's Augustinus concludes, is that time is only related to human consciousness.
It's like space infinity is something you can symbolize by a mathematic symbol, but that the human mind, -in its normal state of consciousness at least- can't even envisage, as it's beyond human possibilities. |
Which reminds me of a quote by Captain Blackadder:
"wibble"
|
Jon Lord 1941 - 2012
|
|
oliverstoned
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: March 26 2004
Location: France
Status: Offline
Points: 6308
|
Posted: December 29 2005 at 08:43 |
|
He was a great philosopher also...
|
|
Jared
Forum Senior Member
Joined: May 06 2005
Location: Hereford, UK
Status: Offline
Points: 20345
|
Posted: December 29 2005 at 08:50 |
Tony R wrote:
Logos wrote:
Tony R wrote:
"If a tree falls in the woods,and nobody witnesses it does it make a sound?" |
If a tree falls in the woods and nobody witnesses it, why should anyone care? |
Because I dropped my Rolex under the ****ing tree!
|
Tony, we all know you can't afford a Rolex....
...you spend far too much time on tis iste to allow enough free hours in the day to be able to earn the money to buy one...
Edited by fandango
|
|
Music has always been a matter of energy to me. On some nights I believe that a car with the needle on empty can run 50 more miles if you have the right music very loud on the radio. Hunter S Thompson
|
|
Jared
Forum Senior Member
Joined: May 06 2005
Location: Hereford, UK
Status: Offline
Points: 20345
|
Posted: December 29 2005 at 08:52 |
Jim Garten wrote:
Which reminds me of a quote by Captain Blackadder:
"wibble"
|
Indeed Jim, never was there a truer Onomatopoeia spoken...
|
|
Music has always been a matter of energy to me. On some nights I believe that a car with the needle on empty can run 50 more miles if you have the right music very loud on the radio. Hunter S Thompson
|
|
Donate monthly and keep PA fast-loading and ad-free forever.
/PAlogo_v2.gif "Progarchives.com Homepage")
Philosophy
