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diga.stef 
Forum Newbie
Joined: November 23 2005
Location: Italy
Status: Offline
Points: 22
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 Topic: Cradle Of Filth
Posted: December 13 2005 at 16:43 |
Shall we add Cradle Of Filth up to our Prog Archives?
And btw do you guys think that black metal can be a sub-genre of prog metal?
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Yours progressively,
Stefano
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Xymphony
Forum Senior Member
Joined: November 03 2005
Location: Turkey
Status: Offline
Points: 211
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Posted: December 13 2005 at 16:47 |
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I very much like the old works of C.O.F. , but no. They are not prog.
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TheProgtologist
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator / Retired Admin
Joined: May 23 2005
Location: Baltimore,Md US
Status: Offline
Points: 27802
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Posted: December 13 2005 at 17:18 |
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No on both counts.
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King of Loss
Prog Reviewer
Joined: April 21 2005
Location: Boston, MA
Status: Offline
Points: 16913
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Posted: December 13 2005 at 18:05 |
 diga.stef wrote:
Shall we add Cradle Of Filth up to our Prog Archives?
And btw do you guys think that black metal can be a sub-genre of prog metal?
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Are you serious. Then let's put KVVVVLTTTTT Black Metal with all its ridiculous Kiss facepaint!!
NOOOOOOOOOOO!!
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Drew
Forum Senior Member
Joined: June 20 2005
Location: California
Status: Offline
Points: 12600
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Posted: December 13 2005 at 19:56 |
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No- they suck- they are a joke of a band- FAKE!
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Bryan
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: April 01 2004
Status: Offline
Points: 3013
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Posted: December 13 2005 at 20:18 |
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Cert will agree with you here.
That said, no.
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TheProgtologist
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator / Retired Admin
Joined: May 23 2005
Location: Baltimore,Md US
Status: Offline
Points: 27802
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Posted: December 13 2005 at 20:57 |
Useful_Idiot wrote:
Cert will agree with you here.
That said, no.
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I was going to say that.
Cert will have something to say in this thread.
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The Miracle
Prog Reviewer
Joined: May 29 2005
Location: hell
Status: Offline
Points: 28427
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Posted: December 13 2005 at 21:42 |
No once again. They suck
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spo1977
Forum Senior Member
Joined: December 09 2005
Status: Offline
Points: 285
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Posted: December 14 2005 at 02:08 |
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I like the song "From the Cradle to enslaved"
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Xymphony
Forum Senior Member
Joined: November 03 2005
Location: Turkey
Status: Offline
Points: 211
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Posted: December 14 2005 at 02:29 |
I hate their poser side, however they were making good and quite original music once, i think... "Cruelty And The Beast" and Dusk And Her Embrace" albums are important ones for me...
But not prog, and no need to be discussed here IMO...
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Certif1ed
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: April 08 2004
Location: England
Status: Offline
Points: 7559
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Posted: December 14 2005 at 03:01 |
CoF are far more Progressive than most of the prog-metal I've heard in the archives.
I don't know about "Black Prog", but if 75% of the bands that are here really are Prog metal, then it's 100% clear to me that CoF are too.
...and don't worry about the guys who say no - notice that they have no reasoning, only dumbass comments like "No", "Noooooooooooooooooooooooo" or "Not again".
I mean, it must have taken seconds to think of replies like that.
...and don't let Philippe delete this one, Bryan 
Edited by Certif1ed
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Sean Trane
Special Collaborator
Prog Folk
Joined: April 29 2004
Location: Heart of Europe
Status: Offline
Points: 20436
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Posted: December 14 2005 at 03:01 |
Not Again!!!!!
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let's just stay above the moral melee
prefer the sink to the gutter
keep our sand-castle virtues
content to be a doer
as well as a thinker,
prefer lifting our pen
rather than un-sheath our sword
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Politician
Forum Senior Member
Joined: July 02 2005
Status: Offline
Points: 521
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Posted: December 14 2005 at 05:47 |
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Their music is unquestionably very progressive - extremely complex and
well played. Unfortunately, the lyrics and dreadful album covers are
slanted towards fourteen year old Goths, and don't even get me started
on the vocals (the female-sung passages are lovely, though).
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TheProgtologist
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator / Retired Admin
Joined: May 23 2005
Location: Baltimore,Md US
Status: Offline
Points: 27802
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Posted: December 14 2005 at 08:49 |
Certif1ed wrote:
CoF are far more Progressive than most of the prog-metal I've heard in the archives.
I don't know about "Black Prog", but if 75% of the bands that are here really are Prog metal, then it's 100% clear to me that CoF are too.
...and don't worry about the guys who say no - notice that they have no reasoning, only dumbass comments like "No", "Noooooooooooooooooooooooo" or "Not again".
I mean, it must have taken seconds to think of replies like that.
...and don't let Philippe delete this one, Bryan
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Well Cert,you never really said why you think they ARE either.
And don't call my comments dumbass comments,please.
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Certif1ed
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: April 08 2004
Location: England
Status: Offline
Points: 7559
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Posted: December 14 2005 at 09:42 |
TheProgtologist wrote:
Certif1ed wrote:
CoF are far more Progressive than most of the prog-metal I've heard in the archives.
I don't know about "Black Prog", but if 75% of the bands that are here really are Prog metal, then it's 100% clear to me that CoF are too.
...and don't worry about the guys who say no - notice that they have no reasoning, only dumbass comments like "No", "Noooooooooooooooooooooooo" or "Not again".
I mean, it must have taken seconds to think of replies like that.
...and don't let Philippe delete this one, Bryan
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Well Cert,you never really said why you think they ARE either.
And don't call my comments dumbass comments,please.
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Not so far in this thread I didn't...
...and don't take it personally - it's not just your comments that lack content in this thread.
Besides, that was what is commonly known as a dig in the ribs.
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MikeEnRegalia
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: April 22 2005
Location: Sweden
Status: Offline
Points: 21618
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Posted: December 14 2005 at 10:13 |
Politician wrote:
Their music is unquestionably very progressive - extremely complex and
well played. Unfortunately, the lyrics and dreadful album covers are
slanted towards fourteen year old Goths, and don't even get me started
on the vocals (the female-sung passages are lovely, though). |
I think that we have to take into account that the whole genre of Black Metal involves the use of symphonic elements ... compared to other Black Metal bands, CoF are not particularly evolved or stand out in any way. Bands like Unexpect are far more inventive and show how a progressive form of Black Metal could sound like.
Having said that ... CoF are not prog. I like them somewhat, and have said (and will continue to say) positive things about their music, but they should not be included here. At least if we don't want to include any other Black Metal band as well.
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Certif1ed
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: April 08 2004
Location: England
Status: Offline
Points: 7559
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Posted: December 14 2005 at 15:21 |
MikeEnRegalia wrote:
Politician wrote:
Their music is unquestionably very progressive - extremely complex and
well played. Unfortunately, the lyrics and dreadful album covers are
slanted towards fourteen year old Goths, and don't even get me started
on the vocals (the female-sung passages are lovely, though). |
I think that we have to take into account that the whole genre of Black Metal involves the use of symphonic elements ... compared to other Black Metal bands, CoF are not particularly evolved or stand out in any way. Bands like Unexpect are far more inventive and show how a progressive form of Black Metal could sound like.
Having said that ... CoF are not prog. I like them somewhat, and have said (and will continue to say) positive things about their music, but they should not be included here. At least if we don't want to include any other Black Metal band as well.
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Considering their history, their style of music seems to predate the "big surge" in black metal, allegedly kicked off by the likes of Mayhem and Emporer - but CoF's style has always had a higher degree of sophistication than either of those illuminaries.
CoF have evolved a more unique symphonic sound - the particular "dark" symphonic sound that appears to be rooted in Diamond Head's "To the Devil". They've kind of settled into a groove that seems to be somewhat more commercial recently, but "Principles...", "Vempire", "Midian" and "Bitter Suites" are all richly varied albums within the genre - far more so than many so-called Prog Metal acts on this site.
I'm actually very keen on Dani's vocals - he has a unique rhythmic style. It's easy to see that some might not like this, but since when has liking or not liking been a factor of prog? The vocal style is also quite broad, from the outrageous throttled screaming to a surprisingly deep and rich "growl" - but always amazingly expressive.
I don't know any of Unexpect's music - do you have any samples?
The whole point of considering CoF is not to open the floodgates - after all, we didn't get Blur, Pulp or Oasis after we added Radiohead, did we?
...and you still haven't managed to even encapsulate why you think they're not prog 
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Lindsay Lohan
Forum Senior Member
Joined: May 25 2005
Location: Norway
Status: Offline
Points: 3254
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Posted: December 14 2005 at 15:51 |
^
Another band that draws their influence from Iron maiden
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Certif1ed
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: April 08 2004
Location: England
Status: Offline
Points: 7559
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Posted: December 14 2005 at 15:59 |
Lindsay Lohan wrote:
^
Another band that draws their influence from Iron maiden
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Yeah - Dani's vocals sound just like Bruce's...
And those riffs - just like Iron Maiden's... Dum da da dum da da dum...
I hear it now through a mist of NOT!!!
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Xymphony
Forum Senior Member
Joined: November 03 2005
Location: Turkey
Status: Offline
Points: 211
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Posted: December 14 2005 at 16:15 |
Lindsay Lohan wrote:
^
Another band that draws their influence from Iron maiden
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Cradle Of Filth is more interested in whores, than maidens. Isn't it obvious?
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Cradle Of Filth
