Author |
Topic Search Topic Options
|
Guests
Forum Guest Group
|
Posted: December 13 2005 at 07:12 |
Pink floyd is as much progg as Bob Dylan is to country western
|
|
SaintVitus
Forum Newbie
Joined: September 26 2005
Status: Offline
Points: 32
|
Posted: December 13 2005 at 07:15 |
Losendos wrote:
They have always been considered prog and are one
of the seminal bands. Listed to Atom Heart Mother and Meddle and you
will see why. Creatiivity dropped later on but this seems to be a
problem for all bands before long. |
I can't agree....at least untill the departure of Waters they were very
creative - Animals and The Wall are both Masterpieces though they are
musically completely different
|
Space Is Deep
|
|
Certif1ed
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: April 08 2004
Location: England
Status: Offline
Points: 7559
|
Posted: December 13 2005 at 07:57 |
Let's drop the notions of long complex arrangements, complexity and all the other nonsense that tends to go with describing prog for a moment.
Prog Rock is not about being hideously complex, or being able to improvise for hours on end -although Pink Floyd more than demonstrated their abilities on their earliest output. In fact, if you think about it, everything after Meddle was one concept per album - the Wall being the ultimate consumation of coherent concept-building.
The biggest problem with Pink Floyd as a Prog Rock band that I see is modern perception of Prog Rock - which seems to have little or nothing to do with actual Prog Rock, and more to do with casual sources of reference like Wikipedia, which is one of the worst sources of information about music that I have ever seen - simply because of all the opinionated and factually inaccurate articles therein.
Prog Rock is defined by the bands who were there first - the bands who defined Prog Rock.
Pink Floyd are one of those bands.
That's why they're Prog
|
|
Blacksword
Prog Reviewer
Joined: June 22 2004
Location: England
Status: Offline
Points: 16130
|
Posted: December 13 2005 at 07:59 |
^ Agreed.
|
Ultimately bored by endless ecstasy!
|
|
Snow Dog
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: March 23 2005
Location: Caerdydd
Status: Offline
Points: 32995
|
Posted: December 13 2005 at 08:02 |
^Double agreed!
|
|
|
Blacksword
Prog Reviewer
Joined: June 22 2004
Location: England
Status: Offline
Points: 16130
|
Posted: December 13 2005 at 08:05 |
^ I love this level of debate..
Edited by Blacksword
|
Ultimately bored by endless ecstasy!
|
|
Snow Dog
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: March 23 2005
Location: Caerdydd
Status: Offline
Points: 32995
|
Posted: December 13 2005 at 08:06 |
Blacksword wrote:
^ I love this level of debate.. |
Agreed!
|
|
|
Blacksword
Prog Reviewer
Joined: June 22 2004
Location: England
Status: Offline
Points: 16130
|
Posted: December 13 2005 at 08:09 |
^ Less is more...
said the prog fan......
|
Ultimately bored by endless ecstasy!
|
|
matti meikäläin
Forum Senior Member
Joined: August 10 2005
Status: Offline
Points: 220
|
Posted: December 13 2005 at 08:15 |
floyd is so prog, especially wish you were here and animals
|
|
Big Ears
Forum Senior Member
Joined: February 08 2005
Location: Hants, England
Status: Offline
Points: 727
|
Posted: December 13 2005 at 08:16 |
Because they play in a style which progresses beyond the guitar, bass and drums format.
Why is Bob Marley reggae?
|
|
Vulkan
Forum Groupie
Joined: December 09 2005
Location: Argentina
Status: Offline
Points: 43
|
Posted: December 13 2005 at 08:16 |
viperjr98 wrote:
What is it about Pink Floyd that makes them prog?
|
... you've captured the chaos in my mind with few words... bravo!
There seem to be 3 main related questions here: what is prog rock, how is pink floyd's music defined and what difference it makes...
For the first to questions, I think you've answered them yourselves, and if you haven't, someone else can do it better than me... now for the third one: what difference does it make to you that PF would be prog or not! yes, I know, it wouldn't be in this site! But apart from that, you like Floyd or you don't, that should be the question... anyway, as I am not answering ANYTHING, I'll remain an observer.
|
Why are we never too sure till we die or have killed for an answer...
...Though names may change each face retains the mask it wore
|
|
Guests
Forum Guest Group
|
Posted: December 13 2005 at 08:38 |
Pink Floyd is poor mans prog ... For people who don`t get it but think they get it
|
|
SaintVitus
Forum Newbie
Joined: September 26 2005
Status: Offline
Points: 32
|
Posted: December 13 2005 at 08:52 |
|
Space Is Deep
|
|
ANDREW
Forum Senior Member
Joined: November 21 2005
Location: Italy
Status: Offline
Points: 3064
|
Posted: December 13 2005 at 10:06 |
bobo wrote:
being inventive isn't enough to be prog - Dylan was inventive, the beatles were inventive, does that make them prog? hell, punk was inventive! it's not right to say that they're prog 'cause they did things that weren't done before. personally, I don't get they're thing either. besides the fact that I'm not excited about they're music (it's rather plain to me), I don't see what's prog in them. I'm with viperjr98 on this one. it's just a bunch of rock songs, usually slow ones, with odd space sounds. so what? |
You have a very nice avatar.
|
|
Publius84
Forum Senior Member
Joined: November 11 2005
Location: Poland
Status: Offline
Points: 1043
|
Posted: December 13 2005 at 10:20 |
samhob wrote:
prog or not, they are the best |
Well said
Edited by Publius84
|
I know what I like and I like what I know...
Prog is in my heart, in my mind, in my soul...
|
|
Santi_VdGG
Forum Newbie
Joined: December 12 2005
Location: Argentina
Status: Offline
Points: 22
|
Posted: December 13 2005 at 10:24 |
in my humble opinion, unless "The Piper..." and "A Saucerful..." Pink Floyd is prog. I agree with Miracle's post.
Edited by Santi_VdGG
|
|
Korova
Forum Senior Member
Joined: November 04 2005
Location: Italy
Status: Offline
Points: 189
|
Posted: December 13 2005 at 10:26 |
The Miracle wrote:
If you listened to Dark Side or the later
albums starting with The Wall, your description is correct. But if you
listen to stuff from Piper to Obscured By Clouds, and Wish You/Animals,
you will see long compositions, complex arrangements, and all
other characteristics of prog perfectly present. They had long, complex
epics like Atom Heart Mother, Echoes, Saucerful Of
Secrets, Alan's Psychedelic Breakfast and Shine On You Crazy
Diamond. Animals is a very "prog", extremely complex concept album.
They even experimented with avant garde on Ummagumma. Are you
sure you heard the right albums?
Let's look at the PA definition of prog.
- Long compositions, sometimes running over 20 minutes, with
intricate melodies and harmonies that require repeated listening to
grasp. These are often described as epics and are the genre's clearest
nod to classical music. An early example is the 23-minute "Echoes" by Pink Floyd.
Other famous examples include Jethro Tull's "Thick as a Brick" (43
minutes), Yes' "Close to the Edge" (18 minutes) and Genesis' "Supper's
Ready" (23 minutes). More recent extreme examples are the 60-minute
"Light of Day, Day of Darkness" by Green Carnation and "Garden of
Dreams" by The Flower Kings.
I mentioned the epics above.
- Lyrics that convey intricate and sometimes impenetrable narratives, covering such themes as science fiction, fantasy, history, religion, war, love, and madness.
Pink Floyd were one of the first to experiment with
narratives, Barrett and later Waters were great lyricists who
covered all these aspects.
- Concept albums, in which a theme or storyline is explored
throughout an entire album in a manner similar to a film or a play. In
the days of vinyl, these were usually two-record sets with strikingly
designed gatefold sleeves. Famous examples include The Lamb Lies Down
on Broadway by Genesis, Tales from Topographic Oceans by Yes, 2112 by
Rush, Dark Side of the Moon and The Wall by Pink Floyd,
and the more recent Metropolis Part II: Scenes from a Memory by Dream
Theater and Snow by Spock's Beard. Aqualung, perhaps the best-known
record by Jethro Tull, is often regarded as a concept album due to its
recurring themes, but songwriter Ian Anderson has always claimed that
the album is just "a bunch of songs".
This point well covered too. Although I think Animals beats these two.
- Unusual vocal styles and use of multi-part vocal harmonies. See Magma, Robert Wyatt, and Gentle Giant.
Plenty, especially on Animals and The Wall.
- Prominent use of electronic instrumentation — particularly keyboard
instruments such as the organ, piano, Mellotron, and Moog synthesizer,
in addition to the usual rock combination of electric guitar, bass and
drums.
They used all those instruments, except I'm not sure about Moog and Mellotron.
- Use of unusual time signatures, scales, or tunings. Many pieces use
multiple time signatures and/or tempi, sometimes concurrently. Solo
passages for virtually every instrument, designed to showcase the
virtuosity of the player. This is the sort of thing that contributed to
the fame of such performers as keyboardist Rick Wakeman and drummer
Neil Peart.
PF did amazing drum perfomances, weird guitar and keyboard work
on the early albums(watch Live at Pompeii), later it was reduced to
more straightfoward, but still as technical and virtuose solos.
- Inclusion of classical pieces on albums. For example, Yes start
their concerts with a taped extract of Stravinsky's Firebird suite, and
Emerson Lake and Palmer have performed arrangements of pieces by
Copland, Bartók, Moussorgsky, Prokofiev, Janacek, Alberto Ginastera,
and often feature quotes from J. S. Bach in lead breaks. Jethro Tull
recorded a famous cover of J. S. Bach's "Bouree", in which they turned
the classical piece into a "sleazy jazzy night-club song", according to
Ian Anderson. Marillion started concerts with Rossini's La Gazza Ladra
(The Thieving Magpie). Symphony X has included parts by, or inspired
by, Beethoven, Holst and Mozart.
They didn't have that one, although Atom Heart Mother is a classical piece of its own.
- An aesthetic linking the music with visual art, a trend started by
The Beatles with Sgt. Pepper's and enthusiastically embraced during the
prog heyday. Some bands became as well-known for the art direction of
their albums as for their sound, with the "look" integrated into the
band's overall musical identity. This led to fame for particular
artists and design studios, most notably Roger Dean, whose paintings
and logo design for Yes are so essential to the band's identity they
could be said to serve the same function as corporate branding. Hipgnosis became equally famous for their unusual sleeves for Pink Floyd,
often featuring experimental photography quite innovative for the time
(two men shaking hands, one of whom is in flames, on the cover of Wish
You Were Here). H.R. Giger's painting for Emerson Lake and Palmer's
Brain Salad Surgery is one of the most famous album sleeves ever
produced.
The most amazing works of Storm are PF sleeves.
All points except for one covered. Need any more proof?
|
I couldn't have said better
|
La Speranza della coscienza è forza
La Speranza del sentimento è schiavitù
La Speranza del corpo è malattia
(G.I. Gurdjieff)
|
|
Certif1ed
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: April 08 2004
Location: England
Status: Offline
Points: 7559
|
Posted: December 13 2005 at 12:50 |
s1ipp3ry wrote:
Pink Floyd is poor mans prog ... For people who don`t get it but think they get it |
OK, could you explain it to those of us who don't get it, then?
|
|
erlenst
Forum Senior Member
Joined: May 17 2005
Location: Denmark
Status: Offline
Points: 387
|
Posted: December 13 2005 at 13:11 |
Certif1ed wrote:
Let's drop the notions of long complex
arrangements, complexity and all the other nonsense that tends to go
with describing prog for a moment.
Prog Rock is not about being hideously complex, or being able to
improvise for hours on end -although Pink Floyd more than demonstrated
their abilities on their earliest output. In fact, if you think about
it, everything after Meddle was one concept per album - the Wall being
the ultimate consumation of coherent concept-building.
The biggest problem with Pink Floyd as a Prog Rock band that I see
is modern perception of Prog Rock - which seems to have little or
nothing to do with actual Prog Rock, and more to do with casual sources
of reference like Wikipedia, which is one of the worst sources of
information about music that I have ever seen - simply because of all
the opinionated and factually inaccurate articles therein.
Prog Rock is defined by the bands who were there first - the bands who defined Prog Rock.
Pink Floyd are one of those bands.
That's why they're Prog
|
Actually I think wikipedia's article about progressive rock is
excellent and follow pretty much the same definition as this very site
does.. I really have no idea what you are talking about .
|
|
stonebeard
Forum Senior Member
Joined: May 27 2005
Location: NE Indiana
Status: Offline
Points: 28057
|
Posted: December 13 2005 at 13:16 |
If you ignore the MUSIC of Of Dark Side, The Wall and The Final Cut (not the concepts), I can't understand how you could NOT consider them a Prog Rock band.
This doesn't apply to post-Waters era Floyd, which is something entirely different, even though "Cluster ONe" rules.
|
|
|
Donate monthly and keep PA fast-loading and ad-free forever.