Forum Home Forum Home > Progressive Music Lounges > Prog Music Lounge
  New Posts New Posts RSS Feed - Can anyone tell me why P.Floyd is prog?
  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Events   Register Register  Login Login

Topic ClosedCan anyone tell me why P.Floyd is prog?

 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <1234>
Author
Message
Guests View Drop Down
Forum Guest Group
Forum Guest Group
Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 13 2005 at 07:12
 Pink floyd is as much progg as Bob Dylan is to country western
Back to Top
SaintVitus View Drop Down
Forum Newbie
Forum Newbie


Joined: September 26 2005
Status: Offline
Points: 32
Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 13 2005 at 07:15
Originally posted by Losendos Losendos wrote:

 

 

    They have always been considered prog and are one of the seminal bands. Listed to Atom Heart Mother and Meddle and you will see why. Creatiivity dropped later on but this seems to be a problem for all bands before long.



I can't agree....at least untill the departure of Waters they were very creative - Animals and The Wall are both Masterpieces though they are musically completely different
Space Is Deep
Back to Top
Certif1ed View Drop Down
Special Collaborator
Special Collaborator
Avatar
Honorary Collaborator

Joined: April 08 2004
Location: England
Status: Offline
Points: 7559
Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 13 2005 at 07:57

Let's drop the notions of long complex arrangements, complexity and all the other nonsense that tends to go with describing prog for a moment.

Prog Rock is not about being hideously complex, or being able to improvise for hours on end -although Pink Floyd more than demonstrated their abilities on their earliest output. In fact, if you think about it, everything after Meddle was one concept per album - the Wall being the ultimate consumation of coherent concept-building.

The biggest problem with Pink Floyd as a Prog Rock band that I see is modern perception of Prog Rock - which seems to have little or nothing to do with actual Prog Rock, and more to do with casual sources of reference like Wikipedia, which is one of the worst sources of information about music that I have ever seen - simply because of all the opinionated and factually inaccurate articles therein.

Prog Rock is defined by the bands who were there first - the bands who defined Prog Rock.

Pink Floyd are one of those bands.

That's why they're Prog

 

Back to Top
Blacksword View Drop Down
Prog Reviewer
Prog Reviewer
Avatar

Joined: June 22 2004
Location: England
Status: Offline
Points: 16130
Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 13 2005 at 07:59
^ Agreed.
Ultimately bored by endless ecstasy!
Back to Top
Snow Dog View Drop Down
Special Collaborator
Special Collaborator
Avatar
Honorary Collaborator

Joined: March 23 2005
Location: Caerdydd
Status: Offline
Points: 32995
Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 13 2005 at 08:02
^Double agreed!
Back to Top
Blacksword View Drop Down
Prog Reviewer
Prog Reviewer
Avatar

Joined: June 22 2004
Location: England
Status: Offline
Points: 16130
Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 13 2005 at 08:05
^ I love this level of debate..

Edited by Blacksword
Ultimately bored by endless ecstasy!
Back to Top
Snow Dog View Drop Down
Special Collaborator
Special Collaborator
Avatar
Honorary Collaborator

Joined: March 23 2005
Location: Caerdydd
Status: Offline
Points: 32995
Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 13 2005 at 08:06

Originally posted by Blacksword Blacksword wrote:

^ I love this level of debate..

Agreed!

Back to Top
Blacksword View Drop Down
Prog Reviewer
Prog Reviewer
Avatar

Joined: June 22 2004
Location: England
Status: Offline
Points: 16130
Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 13 2005 at 08:09

^ Less is more...

 

said the prog fan......

Ultimately bored by endless ecstasy!
Back to Top
matti meikäläin View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: August 10 2005
Status: Offline
Points: 220
Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 13 2005 at 08:15
floyd is so prog, especially wish you were here and animals
Back to Top
Big Ears View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: February 08 2005
Location: Hants, England
Status: Offline
Points: 727
Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 13 2005 at 08:16

Because they play in a style which progresses beyond the guitar, bass and drums format.

Why is Bob Marley reggae? 

Back to Top
Vulkan View Drop Down
Forum Groupie
Forum Groupie
Avatar

Joined: December 09 2005
Location: Argentina
Status: Offline
Points: 43
Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 13 2005 at 08:16
Originally posted by viperjr98 viperjr98 wrote:

What is it about Pink Floyd that makes them prog?

 ... you've captured the chaos in my mind with few words... bravo!

There seem to be 3 main related questions here: what is prog rock, how is pink floyd's music defined and what difference it makes...

For the first to questions, I think you've answered them yourselves, and if you haven't, someone else can do it better than me... now for the third one: what difference does it make to you that PF would be prog or not! yes, I know, it wouldn't be in this site! But apart from that, you like Floyd or you don't, that should be the question... anyway, as I am not answering ANYTHING, I'll remain an observer.

Why are we never too sure till we die or have killed for an answer...
...Though names may change each face retains the mask it wore
Back to Top
Guests View Drop Down
Forum Guest Group
Forum Guest Group
Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 13 2005 at 08:38
Pink Floyd is poor mans prog ... For people who don`t get it but think they get it
Back to Top
SaintVitus View Drop Down
Forum Newbie
Forum Newbie


Joined: September 26 2005
Status: Offline
Points: 32
Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 13 2005 at 08:52
Originally posted by s1ipp3ry s1ipp3ry wrote:

Pink Floyd is poor mans prog ... For people who don`t get it but think they get it


I love CAN, Magma , Gentle Giant, King Crimson, Van der Graaf and lots of other "more complex"  Prog / Krautrock Bands so i think i could be one of those who "get it"  -  but Pink Floyd still is (and will always remain) my favourite Group
Space Is Deep
Back to Top
ANDREW View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: November 21 2005
Location: Italy
Status: Offline
Points: 3064
Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 13 2005 at 10:06

Originally posted by bobo bobo wrote:

being inventive isn't enough to be prog - Dylan was inventive, the beatles were inventive, does that make them prog? hell, punk was inventive! it's not right to say that they're prog 'cause they did things that weren't done before. personally, I don't get they're thing either. besides the fact that I'm not excited about they're music (it's rather plain to me), I don't see what's prog in them. I'm with viperjr98 on this one. it's just a bunch of rock songs, usually slow ones, with odd space sounds. so what?

You have a very nice avatar.

Back to Top
Publius84 View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: November 11 2005
Location: Poland
Status: Offline
Points: 1043
Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 13 2005 at 10:20
Originally posted by samhob samhob wrote:

prog or not, they are the best



Well said

Edited by Publius84
I know what I like and I like what I know...

Prog is in my heart, in my mind, in my soul...
Back to Top
Santi_VdGG View Drop Down
Forum Newbie
Forum Newbie
Avatar

Joined: December 12 2005
Location: Argentina
Status: Offline
Points: 22
Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 13 2005 at 10:24
in my humble opinion, unless "The Piper..." and "A Saucerful..." Pink Floyd is prog. I agree with Miracle's post.

Edited by Santi_VdGG
Back to Top
Korova View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: November 04 2005
Location: Italy
Status: Offline
Points: 189
Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 13 2005 at 10:26
Originally posted by The Miracle The Miracle wrote:

If you listened to Dark Side or the later albums starting with The Wall, your description is correct. But if you listen to stuff from Piper to Obscured By Clouds, and Wish You/Animals, you will see long compositions, complex arrangements, and all other characteristics of prog perfectly present. They had long, complex epics like Atom Heart Mother, Echoes, Saucerful Of Secrets, Alan's  Psychedelic Breakfast and Shine On You Crazy Diamond. Animals is a very "prog", extremely complex concept album. They even experimented with avant garde on Ummagumma. Are you sure you heard the right albums? 

Let's look at the PA definition of prog.

  • Long compositions, sometimes running over 20 minutes, with intricate melodies and harmonies that require repeated listening to grasp. These are often described as epics and are the genre's clearest nod to classical music. An early example is the 23-minute "Echoes" by Pink Floyd. Other famous examples include Jethro Tull's "Thick as a Brick" (43 minutes), Yes' "Close to the Edge" (18 minutes) and Genesis' "Supper's Ready" (23 minutes). More recent extreme examples are the 60-minute "Light of Day, Day of Darkness" by Green Carnation and "Garden of Dreams" by The Flower Kings.

I mentioned the epics above.

  • Lyrics that convey intricate and sometimes impenetrable narratives, covering such themes as science fiction, fantasy, history, religion, war, love, and madness.

Pink Floyd were one of the first to experiment with narratives, Barrett and later Waters were great lyricists who covered all these aspects.

  • Concept albums, in which a theme or storyline is explored throughout an entire album in a manner similar to a film or a play. In the days of vinyl, these were usually two-record sets with strikingly designed gatefold sleeves. Famous examples include The Lamb Lies Down on Broadway by Genesis, Tales from Topographic Oceans by Yes, 2112 by Rush, Dark Side of the Moon and The Wall by Pink Floyd, and the more recent Metropolis Part II: Scenes from a Memory by Dream Theater and Snow by Spock's Beard. Aqualung, perhaps the best-known record by Jethro Tull, is often regarded as a concept album due to its recurring themes, but songwriter Ian Anderson has always claimed that the album is just "a bunch of songs".

This point well covered too. Although I think Animals beats these two.

  • Unusual vocal styles and use of multi-part vocal harmonies. See Magma, Robert Wyatt, and Gentle Giant.

Plenty, especially on Animals and The Wall.

  • Prominent use of electronic instrumentation — particularly keyboard instruments such as the organ, piano, Mellotron, and Moog synthesizer, in addition to the usual rock combination of electric guitar, bass and drums.

They used all those instruments, except I'm not sure about Moog and Mellotron. 

  • Use of unusual time signatures, scales, or tunings. Many pieces use multiple time signatures and/or tempi, sometimes concurrently. Solo passages for virtually every instrument, designed to showcase the virtuosity of the player. This is the sort of thing that contributed to the fame of such performers as keyboardist Rick Wakeman and drummer Neil Peart.

PF did amazing drum perfomances, weird guitar and keyboard work on the early albums(watch Live at Pompeii), later it was reduced to more straightfoward, but still as technical and virtuose solos.

  • Inclusion of classical pieces on albums. For example, Yes start their concerts with a taped extract of Stravinsky's Firebird suite, and Emerson Lake and Palmer have performed arrangements of pieces by Copland, Bartók, Moussorgsky, Prokofiev, Janacek, Alberto Ginastera, and often feature quotes from J. S. Bach in lead breaks. Jethro Tull recorded a famous cover of J. S. Bach's "Bouree", in which they turned the classical piece into a "sleazy jazzy night-club song", according to Ian Anderson. Marillion started concerts with Rossini's La Gazza Ladra (The Thieving Magpie). Symphony X has included parts by, or inspired by, Beethoven, Holst and Mozart.

They didn't have that one, although Atom Heart Mother is a classical piece of its own.

  • An aesthetic linking the music with visual art, a trend started by The Beatles with Sgt. Pepper's and enthusiastically embraced during the prog heyday. Some bands became as well-known for the art direction of their albums as for their sound, with the "look" integrated into the band's overall musical identity. This led to fame for particular artists and design studios, most notably Roger Dean, whose paintings and logo design for Yes are so essential to the band's identity they could be said to serve the same function as corporate branding. Hipgnosis became equally famous for their unusual sleeves for Pink Floyd, often featuring experimental photography quite innovative for the time (two men shaking hands, one of whom is in flames, on the cover of Wish You Were Here). H.R. Giger's painting for Emerson Lake and Palmer's Brain Salad Surgery is one of the most famous album sleeves ever produced.

The most amazing works of Storm are PF sleeves.

 

All points except for one covered. Need any more proof?

 



I couldn't have said better

La Speranza della coscienza è forza
La Speranza del sentimento è schiavitù
La Speranza del corpo è malattia
                                       (G.I. Gurdjieff)
Back to Top
Certif1ed View Drop Down
Special Collaborator
Special Collaborator
Avatar
Honorary Collaborator

Joined: April 08 2004
Location: England
Status: Offline
Points: 7559
Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 13 2005 at 12:50

Originally posted by s1ipp3ry s1ipp3ry wrote:

Pink Floyd is poor mans prog ... For people who don`t get it but think they get it

OK, could you explain it to those of us who don't get it, then?

Back to Top
erlenst View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: May 17 2005
Location: Denmark
Status: Offline
Points: 387
Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 13 2005 at 13:11
Originally posted by Certif1ed Certif1ed wrote:

Let's drop the notions of long complex arrangements, complexity and all the other nonsense that tends to go with describing prog for a moment.

Prog Rock is not about being hideously complex, or being able to improvise for hours on end -although Pink Floyd more than demonstrated their abilities on their earliest output. In fact, if you think about it, everything after Meddle was one concept per album - the Wall being the ultimate consumation of coherent concept-building.

The biggest problem with Pink Floyd as a Prog Rock band that I see is modern perception of Prog Rock - which seems to have little or nothing to do with actual Prog Rock, and more to do with casual sources of reference like Wikipedia, which is one of the worst sources of information about music that I have ever seen - simply because of all the opinionated and factually inaccurate articles therein.

Prog Rock is defined by the bands who were there first - the bands who defined Prog Rock.

Pink Floyd are one of those bands.

That's why they're Prog

 



Actually I think wikipedia's article about progressive rock is excellent and follow pretty much the same definition as this very site does.. I really have no idea what you are talking about .
Back to Top
stonebeard View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: May 27 2005
Location: NE Indiana
Status: Offline
Points: 28057
Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 13 2005 at 13:16

If you ignore the MUSIC of Of Dark Side, The Wall and The Final Cut (not the concepts), I can't understand how you could NOT consider them a Prog Rock band.

This doesn't apply to post-Waters era Floyd, which is something entirely different, even though "Cluster ONe" rules.

Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <1234>

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down



This page was generated in 0.148 seconds.
Donate monthly and keep PA fast-loading and ad-free forever.