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viperjr98
Forum Groupie
Joined: July 14 2005
Location: United States
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Points: 88
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Topic: Can anyone tell me why P.Floyd is prog? Posted: December 12 2005 at 23:36 |
I don't know. Maybe I just don't get it. I've tried to like Pink Floyd, I really have. But to me it's just an occasional good rock song followed by strange spaciness. I've never done drugs. Would it help?
Before I found progarchives, I never considered Pink Floyd prog. All the other classics -- Yes, Genesis, Rush, etc. -- to me that's prog. But here it seems that half of everyone are Pink Floyd nuts. Are there others like me who just don't get them or am I stranded on my own island? Does it help to be English, perhaps?
What is it about Pink Floyd that makes them prog?
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NetsNJFan
Prog Reviewer
Joined: April 12 2005
Location: United States
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Points: 3047
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Posted: December 12 2005 at 23:53 |
Pink Floyd were 10x as inventive and progressive as Rush (who I also like ).
They transformed psychedelia into an art. You dont have to play a million chords a minute to be prog.
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FragileDT
Forum Senior Member
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Joined: June 20 2005
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Points: 1485
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Posted: December 12 2005 at 23:58 |
NetsNJFan wrote:
Pink Floyd were 10x as inventive and progressive
as
Rush (who I also like ).
They transformed psychedelia into an art. You dont have to play a
million
chords a minute to be prog. |
I would disagree. I think Rush is very progressive, just not symphonic
sounding at all. Genesis doesn't play a million chords a minute and they
sure
are prog .
I thought Pink Floyd wasn't prog at first either. At least now, their music
doesn't sound that prog (to me at least.) It was the invention of space
rock and like NetsNJFan said, transforming psychedelia into an art. Bands
had not done what Floyd had done before them so that's why they hold
their progressive standing (for pushing the boundaries of music, not
necessarily by playing various time sig's or other "proglike" features.)
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One likes to believe
In the freedom of music
But glittering prizes
And endless Compromises
Shatter the illusion
Of integrity
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The Miracle
Prog Reviewer
Joined: May 29 2005
Location: hell
Status: Offline
Points: 28427
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Posted: December 13 2005 at 00:09 |
If you listened to Dark Side or the later albums starting with The Wall, your description is correct. But if you listen to stuff from Piper to Obscured By Clouds, and Wish You/Animals, you will see long compositions, complex arrangements, and all other characteristics of prog perfectly present. They had long, complex epics like Atom Heart Mother, Echoes, Saucerful Of Secrets, Alan's Psychedelic Breakfast and Shine On You Crazy Diamond. Animals is a very "prog", extremely complex concept album. They even experimented with avant garde on Ummagumma. Are you sure you heard the right albums?
Let's look at the PA definition of prog.
- Long compositions, sometimes running over 20 minutes, with intricate melodies and harmonies that require repeated listening to grasp. These are often described as epics and are the genre's clearest nod to classical music. An early example is the 23-minute "Echoes" by Pink Floyd. Other famous examples include Jethro Tull's "Thick as a Brick" (43 minutes), Yes' "Close to the Edge" (18 minutes) and Genesis' "Supper's Ready" (23 minutes). More recent extreme examples are the 60-minute "Light of Day, Day of Darkness" by Green Carnation and "Garden of Dreams" by The Flower Kings.
I mentioned the epics above.
- Lyrics that convey intricate and sometimes impenetrable narratives, covering such themes as science fiction, fantasy, history, religion, war, love, and madness.
Pink Floyd were one of the first to experiment with narratives, Barrett and later Waters were great lyricists who covered all these aspects.
- Concept albums, in which a theme or storyline is explored throughout an entire album in a manner similar to a film or a play. In the days of vinyl, these were usually two-record sets with strikingly designed gatefold sleeves. Famous examples include The Lamb Lies Down on Broadway by Genesis, Tales from Topographic Oceans by Yes, 2112 by Rush, Dark Side of the Moon and The Wall by Pink Floyd, and the more recent Metropolis Part II: Scenes from a Memory by Dream Theater and Snow by Spock's Beard. Aqualung, perhaps the best-known record by Jethro Tull, is often regarded as a concept album due to its recurring themes, but songwriter Ian Anderson has always claimed that the album is just "a bunch of songs".
This point well covered too. Although I think Animals beats these two.
- Unusual vocal styles and use of multi-part vocal harmonies. See Magma, Robert Wyatt, and Gentle Giant.
Plenty, especially on Animals and The Wall.
- Prominent use of electronic instrumentation — particularly keyboard instruments such as the organ, piano, Mellotron, and Moog synthesizer, in addition to the usual rock combination of electric guitar, bass and drums.
They used all those instruments, except I'm not sure about Moog and Mellotron.
- Use of unusual time signatures, scales, or tunings. Many pieces use multiple time signatures and/or tempi, sometimes concurrently. Solo passages for virtually every instrument, designed to showcase the virtuosity of the player. This is the sort of thing that contributed to the fame of such performers as keyboardist Rick Wakeman and drummer Neil Peart.
PF did amazing drum perfomances, weird guitar and keyboard work on the early albums(watch Live at Pompeii), later it was reduced to more straightfoward, but still as technical and virtuose solos.
- Inclusion of classical pieces on albums. For example, Yes start their concerts with a taped extract of Stravinsky's Firebird suite, and Emerson Lake and Palmer have performed arrangements of pieces by Copland, Bartók, Moussorgsky, Prokofiev, Janacek, Alberto Ginastera, and often feature quotes from J. S. Bach in lead breaks. Jethro Tull recorded a famous cover of J. S. Bach's "Bouree", in which they turned the classical piece into a "sleazy jazzy night-club song", according to Ian Anderson. Marillion started concerts with Rossini's La Gazza Ladra (The Thieving Magpie). Symphony X has included parts by, or inspired by, Beethoven, Holst and Mozart.
They didn't have that one, although Atom Heart Mother is a classical piece of its own.
- An aesthetic linking the music with visual art, a trend started by The Beatles with Sgt. Pepper's and enthusiastically embraced during the prog heyday. Some bands became as well-known for the art direction of their albums as for their sound, with the "look" integrated into the band's overall musical identity. This led to fame for particular artists and design studios, most notably Roger Dean, whose paintings and logo design for Yes are so essential to the band's identity they could be said to serve the same function as corporate branding. Hipgnosis became equally famous for their unusual sleeves for Pink Floyd, often featuring experimental photography quite innovative for the time (two men shaking hands, one of whom is in flames, on the cover of Wish You Were Here). H.R. Giger's painting for Emerson Lake and Palmer's Brain Salad Surgery is one of the most famous album sleeves ever produced.
The most amazing works of Storm are PF sleeves.
All points except for one covered. Need any more proof?
Edited by The Miracle
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FragileDT
Forum Senior Member
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Joined: June 20 2005
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 1485
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Posted: December 13 2005 at 00:13 |
Wow. Well thank you Miracle that about sums it up.
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One likes to believe
In the freedom of music
But glittering prizes
And endless Compromises
Shatter the illusion
Of integrity
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cucacola54
Forum Senior Member
Joined: July 11 2005
Location: Mexico
Status: Offline
Points: 1729
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Posted: December 13 2005 at 00:14 |
^^^ good job Miracle
Edited by cucacola54
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Most listened albums last week
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The Miracle
Prog Reviewer
Joined: May 29 2005
Location: hell
Status: Offline
Points: 28427
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Posted: December 13 2005 at 00:19 |
Thanks
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transend
Forum Senior Member
Joined: May 15 2005
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 876
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Posted: December 13 2005 at 00:30 |
Listen to 'Dogs' or 'Shine on..' about as prog as it gets....
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nick63
Forum Groupie
Joined: April 24 2005
Location: Netherlands
Status: Offline
Points: 66
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Posted: December 13 2005 at 04:40 |
The Pinks themself are speaking about Rock & Roll...
But yeah if I must but them in a box it's definitely Prog.
Splendid research Miracle!
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Nick
from the lovely South of the Netherlands
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bobo
Forum Newbie
Joined: June 29 2005
Location: Israel
Status: Offline
Points: 7
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Posted: December 13 2005 at 04:55 |
being inventive isn't enough to be prog - Dylan was inventive, the beatles were inventive, does that make them prog? hell, punk was inventive! it's not right to say that they're prog 'cause they did things that weren't done before. personally, I don't get they're thing either. besides the fact that I'm not excited about they're music (it's rather plain to me), I don't see what's prog in them. I'm with viperjr98 on this one. it's just a bunch of rock songs, usually slow ones, with odd space sounds. so what?
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the contracts of my youth expire
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pero
Forum Senior Member
Joined: July 11 2005
Location: Croatia
Status: Offline
Points: 1242
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Posted: December 13 2005 at 05:06 |
PF are milestones of Prog and psyhodelia.
Comparing them to Rush makes no sence.
Listen to Atom heart mother and Ummagumma before you say they are more rock and roll than prog.
I don't like some of their albums (Wall, Delicate sound.., Devision bell), but they made some great ones (Atom heart mother, Pipper at the gates of down, Medlle, Animals, Dark side of the moon).
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SaintVitus
Forum Newbie
Joined: September 26 2005
Status: Offline
Points: 32
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Posted: December 13 2005 at 05:18 |
viperjr98 wrote:
I never considered Pink Floyd prog.
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That's A Sin!
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Space Is Deep
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Blacksword
Prog Reviewer
Joined: June 22 2004
Location: England
Status: Offline
Points: 16130
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Posted: December 13 2005 at 05:21 |
^ The masses dont consider Floyd prog, thats why they like them. I do consider them prog rock, and thats why I listen to them..
Edited by Blacksword
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Ultimately bored by endless ecstasy!
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BiGi
Forum Senior Member
Joined: June 01 2005
Location: Italy
Status: Offline
Points: 848
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Posted: December 13 2005 at 05:23 |
They are successful in creating moods and conjuring images and sensations: you see the story they are telling right before your eyes.
And they have always experimented new sounds and effects to paint the sound picture they have in mind (one for all, the voice-synth merger in the verses of Sheep)
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A flower?
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samhob
Forum Senior Member
Joined: August 26 2005
Status: Offline
Points: 237
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Posted: December 13 2005 at 05:46 |
prog or not, they are the best
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krusty
Forum Senior Member
Joined: September 27 2005
Location: United Kingdom
Status: Offline
Points: 1777
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Posted: December 13 2005 at 06:06 |
I agree with everthing The Miracle said above. Nice one
Edited by krusty
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The Hemulen
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: July 31 2004
Location: UK
Status: Offline
Points: 5964
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Posted: December 13 2005 at 06:14 |
They innovated. See albums like Umma Gumma and Atom Heart Mother for details.
Incidentally, I don't like Pink Floyd very much.
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Guests
Forum Guest Group
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Posted: December 13 2005 at 06:57 |
I'm a floyd fan, but they are limited to playing slower prog. Cool mellow band, but not in my top 10
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sleeper
Prog Reviewer
Joined: October 09 2005
Location: Entropia
Status: Offline
Points: 16449
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Posted: December 13 2005 at 07:05 |
They were instrumentle in pushing rock music away from comformaty along with a lot of other bands.
Yes and PF both started out as Psycodelic bands but wheras Yes advanced to there symphonic sound from The Yes Album onwords, PF maintaned a semblence of their roots.
Personally I think Animals, WYWH and The Wall are three of the progiest albums about.
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Spending more than I should on Prog since 2005
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Losendos
Forum Senior Member
Joined: June 03 2005
Location: Australia
Status: Offline
Points: 571
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Posted: December 13 2005 at 07:06 |
They have always been considered prog and are one of the seminal bands. Listed to Atom Heart Mother and Meddle and you will see why. Creatiivity dropped later on but this seems to be a problem for all bands before long.
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How wonderful to be so profound
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