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kaaswarrior View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 29 2005 at 08:12

I think this review (http://www.progarchives.com/Review.asp?id=58507) can't be taken serious. Steven Wilson is the keyboard player of Dream Theater? I suggest either to remove it, or correct it. Hope this helps...

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 29 2005 at 08:47

Re Braindamage. I try to be flexible with him, he clearly has a wide taste in prog, and has reviewed many albums. Unfortunately, sometimes the translations come out as mince. In those cases I delete the text and leave the ratings. I've tried e-mailing BD, but without response (unfornuately my Japanese is poor to non-existent!Embarrassed).

Kasswarrior. I'll correct the review, I wouldn't normally delete reviews due to factual inaccruacies, that would be a full time job!LOL

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 29 2005 at 13:14
Originally posted by Easy Livin Easy Livin wrote:

Kasswarrior. I'll correct the review, I wouldn't normally delete reviews due to factual inaccruacies, that would be a full time job!LOL

I Understand. This error however is so big... that i just couldn't resist reporting it...

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 29 2005 at 16:41
Hey Kaas...I just read that review...funny.  Dream Theater and Opeth?  <snicker>
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 29 2005 at 17:43
Originally posted by stonebeard stonebeard wrote:

I didn't even know there were Japanese-English online translators!

There are. Have a look at Google's Language Tools and have some fun.

"Oh yes there are!" translates to "オハイオ州ははいそこにある!" (which may not appear correctly in this post due to the apparent lack of support for Japanese characters, but it looks OK as I post this).

Trouble is, if you translate it back, you get "As for Ohio state it is and there is there!"

 

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 29 2005 at 19:53

Not terribly sure if this is "inapporpriate", but it IS kinda funny.  Have a go at it.

GROBSCHNITT Ballermann
Review (Permanent link) by Prog-zilla @ 9:22:26 AM EST, 4/13/2005

1 stars    What a pathetic pile of drivel. When prog is great, it is really great. When it is bad, it can be simply awful. This miserable mess is not helped by the vocals either, with a horrid German accent. the track "Sahara" has got to be the most pathetic thing I've ever heard. Other stuff on the album is better, but weak and disjointed and sometimes just plain boring. There is something wrong with every song. "Magic Train" is a good example of this. It starts out with a nice piano introduction, and just as you are starting to enjoy it, you realize that it goes on way too long, and then the vocals start - this has to be worst cat- miaowing I've ever heard. Not if they paid you.
 
Note the highlighted words.  Wonder if this "reviewer" knows the group is GERMAN?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 29 2005 at 22:51
Originally posted by sbrushfan sbrushfan wrote:

Not terribly sure if this is "inapporpriate", but it IS kinda funny.  Have a go at it.

GROBSCHNITT Ballermann
Review (Permanent link) by Prog-zilla @ 9:22:26 AM EST, 4/13/2005

1 stars    What a pathetic pile of drivel. When prog is great, it is really great. When it is bad, it can be simply awful. This miserable mess is not helped by the vocals either, with a horrid German accent. the track "Sahara" has got to be the most pathetic thing I've ever heard. Other stuff on the album is better, but weak and disjointed and sometimes just plain boring. There is something wrong with every song. "Magic Train" is a good example of this. It starts out with a nice piano introduction, and just as you are starting to enjoy it, you realize that it goes on way too long, and then the vocals start - this has to be worst cat- miaowing I've ever heard. Not if they paid you.
 
Note the highlighted words.  Wonder if this "reviewer" knows the group is GERMAN?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?

To me this one passes ...just about ... I think the accent thing is probably understood by reviewer, but not explained well enough ...

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 30 2005 at 01:17
The latest England - Garden Shed is a disgrace and is clearly reviewed by a musical retard. I know he is entitled to his own opinion, but noone on a progressive rock site should be allowed to have such an outragiously stupid opinion and get away with it. 
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 30 2005 at 06:51

Originally posted by erlenst erlenst wrote:

The latest England - Garden Shed is a disgrace and is clearly reviewed by a musical retard. I know he is entitled to his own opinion, but noone on a progressive rock site should be allowed to have such an outragiously stupid opinion and get away with it. 

ENGLAND Garden Shed progressive rock album and reviews Symphonic Prog
(Studio Album, 1977)

ENGLAND "Garden Shed"
Review (Permanent link) by Ben Blake Mitchner
Posted 6:36:28 PM EST, 11/29/2005

1 stars   I know a lot of people who either claim this to be a masterwork of early Genesis meets Yes or who think it is a blatantly poor opportunistic venture by talentless hacks. I would go with the latter, but give it even more of a slamming than that. To this prog rock lover this is THE WORST EXPLOITATION OF PROGRESSIVE MUSIC EVER RECORDED AND STRICTLY TO AVOID! I had this album, and taped it. More and more times going back I am so horrified by the lyrics and "music" that I can't even get through the first track anymore. So what makes England so bad? For one thing, their name is a rude backstab against the country they came from, if there is one thing they don't represent it is the country of England. For another, you don't have to listen close to the lyrics of opening track "Midnight Madness" or the painful, agony inducing closer "Poisoned Youth" to know these are really sick people with a kniving obsession! Both tracks end with the main character stabbing himself to death in the most sick. violent, morbid, and horrifying manner. Add to the disgusting grotesque lyrics a drummer who can't keep time and who overcompensates by banging his fists into the drum kit like a bad Hollywood movie score, horrendously screeching tone deaf vocals, and useless screwing around on the keyboards and guitars in a blatantly awful imitiation of Genesis, and the only other band as awful as this is Barclay James Harvest. The tracks are too long, the influences merely a swipe and a copy, and the production horrific. I would expect this album to appeal to those who like BJH or Marillion, but whereas Marillion actually weren't horrible musicians I am strongly reminded of my most hated "symphonic" group BJH again, but with an even more unoriginal sound. BJH couldn't sing or play at all, and England can't either. Is there anything to redeem one moment of this album, even one good passage? No, there is not. This album is beyond bad, it is offensive and disgraceful. I have never heard another band from England who play and sing and write as horribly as this band does, and for the price an original goes for this is something to avoid at all costs. I may be a huge admirer of progressive music, but I know when I'm being taken for a ride and so should you. That's about all I have to say about this most horrendous album. They deserve to be denounced, brought before a court, and put in the dungeon of worst insults ever to music. BAD!
 
Very harsh review indeed!
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 30 2005 at 07:25
Originally posted by Fitzcarraldo Fitzcarraldo wrote:

Originally posted by stonebeard stonebeard wrote:

I didn't even know there were Japanese-English online translators!

There are. Have a look at Google's Language Tools and have some fun.

"Oh yes there are!" translates to "オハイオ州ははいそこに る!" (which may not appear correctly in this post due to the apparent lack of support for Japanese characters, but it looks OK as I post this).

Trouble is, if you translate it back, you get "As for Ohio state it is and there is there!"

 

But I thought the Japanese read from top to bottom, not left to right

Or does it make a difference???

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 30 2005 at 09:09
Originally posted by Bj-1 Bj-1 wrote:

Originally posted by erlenst erlenst wrote:

The latest England - Garden Shed is a disgrace and is clearly reviewed by a musical retard. I know he is entitled to his own opinion, but noone on a progressive rock site should be allowed to have such an outragiously stupid opinion and get away with it. 

ENGLAND Garden Shed progressive rock album and reviews Symphonic Prog
(Studio Album, 1977)

ENGLAND "Garden Shed"
Review (Permanent link) by Ben Blake Mitchner
Posted 6:36:28 PM EST, 11/29/2005

1 stars   I know a lot of people who either claim this to be a masterwork of early Genesis meets Yes or who think it is a blatantly poor opportunistic venture by talentless hacks. I would go with the latter, but give it even more of a slamming than that. To this prog rock lover this is THE WORST EXPLOITATION OF PROGRESSIVE MUSIC EVER RECORDED AND STRICTLY TO AVOID! I had this album, and taped it. More and more times going back I am so horrified by the lyrics and "music" that I can't even get through the first track anymore. So what makes England so bad? For one thing, their name is a rude backstab against the country they came from, if there is one thing they don't represent it is the country of England. For another, you don't have to listen close to the lyrics of opening track "Midnight Madness" or the painful, agony inducing closer "Poisoned Youth" to know these are really sick people with a kniving obsession! Both tracks end with the main character stabbing himself to death in the most sick. violent, morbid, and horrifying manner. Add to the disgusting grotesque lyrics a drummer who can't keep time and who overcompensates by banging his fists into the drum kit like a bad Hollywood movie score, horrendously screeching tone deaf vocals, and useless screwing around on the keyboards and guitars in a blatantly awful imitiation of Genesis, and the only other band as awful as this is Barclay James Harvest. The tracks are too long, the influences merely a swipe and a copy, and the production horrific. I would expect this album to appeal to those who like BJH or Marillion, but whereas Marillion actually weren't horrible musicians I am strongly reminded of my most hated "symphonic" group BJH again, but with an even more unoriginal sound. BJH couldn't sing or play at all, and England can't either. Is there anything to redeem one moment of this album, even one good passage? No, there is not. This album is beyond bad, it is offensive and disgraceful. I have never heard another band from England who play and sing and write as horribly as this band does, and for the price an original goes for this is something to avoid at all costs. I may be a huge admirer of progressive music, but I know when I'm being taken for a ride and so should you. That's about all I have to say about this most horrendous album. They deserve to be denounced, brought before a court, and put in the dungeon of worst insults ever to music. BAD!
 
Very harsh review indeed!


By a strange coincidence ... I'm listening to that album right now ... as I open this thread ... umm ... you know ... while this review is clearly very harsh ... and while I don't really think of the vocals as screechy ... and I can only find murderous references in Poisoned Youth, not Midnight Madness ... this is again a review that may actually be grounded in an honest (if ridiculously demanding) view of the album ...

Once again, I'll have to refer this (along with the Grobschnitt) to reviews manager Easy Livin ... any thoughts?

Personally I think I would let them both stay


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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 30 2005 at 15:43

I agree with you on both counts Trotsky. Both are indeed border line disrespectful to the artists, but I reckon the reviewers have stated their honest opinions, not just been nasty for the sake of it.

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 30 2005 at 17:10

<long, gusty sigh>  Why do people do this?

DEEP PURPLE In Rock
Review (Permanent link) by Rich @ 1:58:03 AM EST, 9/13/2005

3 stars    1. Speed King 04:18 2. Bloodsucker 04:12 3. Child in Time 10:15 4. Flight of the Rat 07:52 5. Into the Fire 03:29 6. Living Wreck 04:30 7. Hard Lovin' Man 07:10 Disc 2 1. Black Night (Original Single Version) 03:27 2. Studio chat 1 00:33 3. Speed King (Piano Version) 04:15 4. Studio chat 2 00:27 5. Cry Free (Roger Glover Remix) 03:21 6. Studio chat 3 00:05 7. Jam Stew (Unreleased Instrumental) 02:31 8. Studio chat 4 00:40 9. Flight of the Rat (Roger Glover Remix) 07:55 10. Studio chat 5 00:31 11. Speed King (Roger Glover Remix) 05:53 12. Studio chat 6 00:23 13. Black Night (Unedited Roger Glover Remix) 04:47

Its Deep Purple,its great.Child In Time is wonderfull and is a great example of organ based prog.The rest is borderline prog at best.In prog terms its hardly essential but in rock terms it kicks ass.
 
He doesn't review the album.  And, while I'm at it....what the HELL is this?
DEEP PURPLE In Rock
Review (Permanent link) by Jhonny Mc gregor (RHAYADER) @ 4:32:19 PM EST, 9/14/2005

5 stars    The mugiente pyrotechnics in the six cords with demolishers riffs of Ritchie Blackmore, the classic organ of impronta of Jon Lord, the rythmical vigor granted by the pair Roger Glover/Ian Paice, next to the vociferous and mighty vocal capacity of Ian Gillan, in one sinergia sonorous shrunk of influences like LED Zeppelin, Black Sabbath, Jimi Hendrix or Cream, makes one of summits in the race of the British group Deep Purple, "In Rock", a Lp initiated with a apabullante tribute to Little Richard, "Speed King", that moves away them of its psicod駘icos beginnings and progressive and it means them like one of the essential foundations of the hard-rock and heavy metal. Urging and propagating in amplified shocks the blues-rock of the 60 end of and classic rock'n'roll in ways of fibrous distortion, the British band composes for this disc, first with the singer Ian Gillan in its rows, some of the best pieces of its race, like the antiwarlike lyricism of the spectacular and 駱ica "Child in Time", a subject with pieces gospel that presents/displays to a aullante Gillan, hamaqueado by a hipntica instrumental association (specially in the keyboards) and absorbent single of Blackmore and Lord, resulted with magnificiencia in many passages of this great album, in special in another one of the best pieces of the disc, "Flight of the rat", that also counts on an exceptional work in the battery of Ian Paice. Indelible and forceful riffs of "Bloodsucker" or "Into the fire", the rugiente and lacerante organ of the sarcastic "Living Wreck" or the mesmerizante I release the brakes and sonorous delirium of "Hard Lovin' Man" is other fragments of a truely exceptional disc within their sort. 


Edited by sbrushfan
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 01 2005 at 03:45
Thanks sbrushfan. There was a brief period in Seprtmber when the proto-prog and prog related album reviews did not appear on the home page. Some dodgy ones therefore slipped through. Wink
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 01 2005 at 08:24

Hughes Chantrane's Muse reviews break some of the guidelines in that they attack the decision to include Muse in the archives, and paint the people responsible as aggressive no-gooders who don't understand Prog and have a degree of ostrichism when it comes to the similarities between them and another band.

I'm flagging them as inappropriate for the above reasons - I know they discuss the albums and the music in a humorous way, and I quite like the reviews in many ways - but if Collaborators don't observe the guidelines, why should anyone else?

Exhibit A:

"Well due to overpowering demand of the Pro-Muse lobby force that put the NRA (National Riffle Association - for the non-Americans see real patriot Michael Moore痴 amazing Bowling For Columbine film) to shame, Muse did finally get in our beloved Archives."

Exhibit B:

"...the lobbyist was completely lobotomised as were the hostages, they all came out calmly but completely brainwashed yelling that Bellamy was the new prophet and started out to form yet another lobby to change the Muse Archives sub-genre to Avant/pop or even better RIA (Rock In Affirmation)."

Exhibit C:

"But I would suggest those people downplaying the Radiohead similarity to wake up and re-listen to them."

Exhibit D:

"But the permanent debate of the Muse lobby in our forum did intrigue me enough to re- investigate the band"

Exhibit E:

"...and not a tenth of the hype is made on the forum about that band."

 

Sorry, Hughes, but I think that Collaborators should know better than to put this sort of stuff into reviews - think about the message are you sending out.

 

The guidelines clearly state:

"5 - Do not voice general opinions on matters such as whether a band/album/sub-genre should be included in the site, whether you agree with the star rating system, etc.. Such matters should be discussed in the forum. Keep the review pertinent to the specific album concerned. The reviews section is NOT the place for initiating or prolonging a debate. "

and

"Do not belittle reviews posted by others, their opinions are as welcome and valid as yours."

 

 

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 01 2005 at 09:02

Fair point Cert, the collaboraotors should set the example for others to follow. It is one thing stating in your review whether you feel an album is prog or not, it is another discussing whether or not a band should have been added to the site. That discussion should take place in the forum only.

Of the comments you highlight, my own view is that:

A: is inapproriate
B; I'm not sure about, what does it mean?Embarrassed
C: Is inappropriate
D: is OK
E: should be rephased to remove the direct connotation about the forum.

I'll drop Hugues a PM asking to look at this thread and consider removing come of his comments.

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 01 2005 at 10:33

Your Honour Bob,

I will defend myself as I can because as you will see there are no direct attacks or naming and shaming for including the band in the Archives as I actually agree with it!! This in itself is well explained in both Muse's reviews and therefore should extict all actions agaionst the reviews!

Nevertheless, not to offend the plaintive as if I was to brush away his critics I will discuss each and every point of the plaintive!

Originally posted by Certif1ed Certif1ed wrote:

Hughes Chantrane (is it possible not to massacre the defendant's name)'s Muse reviews break some of the guidelines in that they attack the decision to include Muse in the archives (as I said above I agree with the inclusion making this point completely invalid), and paint the people responsible as aggressive no-gooders who don't understand Prog and have a degree of ostrichism (I believe he means ostacism but I like his version of hiding one's head in the sand as not to face reality)when it comes to the similarities between them and another band. Those similarities are obvious to anyone listening to it , pertimnebt and help me not only make a case but also describe accurately according to my ears the album.

I'm flagging them as inappropriate for the above reasons - I know they discuss the albums and the music in a humorous way Thank you for at least acknowledging that!!, and I quite like the reviews in many ways - but if Collaborators don't observe the guidelines, why should anyone else?

Exhibit A:

"Well due to overpowering demand of the Pro-Muse lobby force that put the NRA (National Riffle Association - for the non-Americans see real patriot Michael Moore痴 amazing Bowling For Columbine film) to shame, Muse did finally get in our beloved Archives." The fact that humourously mention the intense lobbying that finally did manage the inclusion of the band against the collab's better judgment since both polls about the inclusion were negative in results (remember the collabs voted 11-2 against it) and comparing it to the most famous lobby in the world being put to shame should actually be understood that the band is a controversial addition and many other reviews from other controversial groups have many such critics! ie Queen etc...

Exhibit B:

"...the lobbyist was completely lobotomised as were the hostages, they all came out calmly but completely brainwashed yelling that Bellamy was the new prophet and started out to form yet another lobby to change the Muse Archives sub-genre to Avant/pop or even better RIA (Rock In Affirmation)." While aiming at the gibberish of a certain collab (and he is not the plaintive) , he is not named or shamed> just slightly chuckled at.  I do agree that this whole pargraph has a satyristic feel to it , but this is often the case with my reviews and it never bothers anyone and generally pulls a smile from the readers!

Exhibit C:

"But I would suggest those people downplaying the Radiohead similarity to wake up and re-listen to them." I do not know why this is offending anyone since it is an opinion and not a sarcasm, furthermore you mention yourself the similarities somewhere

Exhibit D:

"But the permanent debate of the Muse lobby in our forum did intrigue me enough to re- investigate the band" Actually singing the praise of the debate since it did push me to listen to the band!

Exhibit E:

"...and not a tenth of the hype is made on the forum about that band." Taken out of context!!! as I am speaking of another band kept all too silent, but would be just as worthy of inclusion in the prog-related genre - RHCP

 

Sorry, Hughes, but I think that Collaborators should know better than to put this sort of stuff into reviews - think about the message are you sending out. I read that someone actually was convinced about the inclusion of a prog-related band that diserved inclusion . What more can you ask for?

 

The guidelines clearly state:

"5 - Do not voice general opinions on matters such as whether a band/album/sub-genre should be included in the site, whether you agree with the star rating system, etc.. Such matters should be discussed in the forum. Keep the review pertinent to the specific album concerned. The reviews section is NOT the place for initiating or prolonging a debate. " I am sorry but if discussing genres is not allowed to describe an artiste's soundscapes than it becomes impossible to review an album or even a group! As for the band's inclusion , you should read that my approach was guided by my curiosity for ots inclusion! Furthermore you yourself do make a few comments in your review about the progressiveness of the album. I suppose this is the only gripe you had with my review regarding this guideline!

and

"Do not belittle reviews posted by others, their opinions are as welcome and valid as yours." I do not attack anyone's opinion and especially since I actually agree with the general opinion. I am sorry if you feel aimed at but you were not! If anyone was being aimed at it is myself and my pre-conceptions and maybe the gibberish-ing collab to which I assure you you are not him/her.

 Furthermore I do not even mention another review (so I cannot ridicule it and neither would I wish too since I find excellent if a bit over-appreciative0 ) as I had not read any other reviews before writingg mine. All I did was read the bio you wrote for them , and it did help me! I did read your review after having pasted and posted mine. One of my great joys is to actually read other reviews and compare it with mine and see how close or how far my judgment is from other!

 

 

You will notice I addressed every point you made and not just the ones Bob accepted as valid!

I truly value your work and opinions , I think you should do the same even more so if I only partly agree with you!

Cert!fied and Bob , now that I have stated this , could you go back and read my reviews with what I explained in mind? I am sure you will find nothing to gripe about!

let's just stay above the moral melee
prefer the sink to the gutter
keep our sand-castle virtues
content to be a doer
as well as a thinker,
prefer lifting our pen
rather than un-sheath our sword
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 01 2005 at 11:03

Furthermore Cert1fied , critcising is easy but you attack me as on grounds you do not respect yourself!!

the only exhibit that should close the debate:

You know, there are times when I want to give an LP masterpiece status even when the context tells me it's clearly not a masterpiece of prog rock. There are generally two of these times, and this falls into both: Discussing the star rating system!! the very same rule you tried to pull on mme! Gotta be careful not scoring against yourself!!

1. When an album grips me in the right way, and I simply enjoy it with tremendous enthusiasm every time I hear it, despite its obvious imperfections. Admitting not respecting the guidelines every time! but I will award the benefit of the doubt!

2. When "click and run" cowards do not actually bother to review the album, but simply vote the lowest possible option because they do not like it. That almost always makes me want to redress the balance by voting the highest option. again admitting to bending the system! or at least implying it is allowed to do so!! And clicking and running is allowed and calling those who do cowards is not only a small foul play but should require sanctions especially when complaining of other doing so when it is not the case!!

However, I approach Muse's Absolution as if I was going to be listening to a Prog Rock album and sadly, this is not even in the running for a Masterpiece of Prog Rock award - it's proggy alright, but not proggy enough to compete with Genesis, Gentle Giant, VDGG et al Still bending the rules here!!

Not your lucky day Cert!

Give up?

Or More???!!

Peace?

let's just stay above the moral melee
prefer the sink to the gutter
keep our sand-castle virtues
content to be a doer
as well as a thinker,
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 01 2005 at 12:54
ELOY Ocean progressive rock album and reviews Psychedelic/Space Rock
(Studio Album, 1977)
ELOY "Ocean"
Review (Permanent link) by francesco
Posted 12:49:48 PM EST, 12/1/2005

1 stars   I' m agree with 'Ren Debot' the singer is bad too mutch bad!!!I think he's sometime odd... but the arrangements is not bad!!my advice is not buy this!!! bye...

Pink Floyd and Porcupine tree are the best!!!!!!!
 
 
 
 
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 01 2005 at 13:41
Originally posted by Bj-1 Bj-1 wrote:

ELOY Ocean progressive rock album and reviews Psychedelic/Space Rock
(Studio Album, 1977)
ELOY "Ocean"
Review (Permanent link) by francesco
Posted 12:49:48 PM EST, 12/1/2005

1 stars   I' m agree with 'Ren Debot' the singer is bad too mutch bad!!!I think he's sometime odd... but the arrangements is not bad!!my advice is not buy this!!! bye...

Pink Floyd and Porcupine tree are the best!!!!!!!
 
 
 
 

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