IS GOD RUINING PROG?

Yes, absolutley. god utterley f**ked Spocks beard.

I try to listen to Neal's solo stuff, but it simply makes me pissed off, a real shame.

Yes, I am an atheist, so it kinda makes sense. I totally believe EVERYONE is entitled to their opinion, but please don't preach it to me and pass it off as a prog album for the prog masses.

GODS RUINING EVERYTHING

Cinema wrote: Dazo wrote: I was not Taking the p*ss when I posted this topic.I love The Flowerkings,I was just wondering if people found the singing of GOD/ Religion offputting to their liking of the music?  Lots of great prog bands are Christian and/or have Christian themes/lyrics in their music. Glass Hammer, Neal Morse, Salem Hill, etc., etc. Personally, I don't find God, or the subject of God, offputting in the least. I've always been amazed that people could care less about lyrics expounding overt violence, satanic themes, brutality, etc., but are highly offended at the mere mention of God or Christianity. Perhaps it's just me, but that seems a bit backwards. Oh well, different strokes for different foks, I guess.

very well said!!!!! im with your views,,,,,,,,,,

If I only make an answer for the main question, I would say no, absolutely not!

no need to explain here my personal religious "convictions"...I just want you to make the distinction between cosmo-biological religions and religions of book...we can't say that all religions suck and are useless only because of dogmatic books as the "Bible"...

FragileDT wrote: I know this was a long time ago but I never saw this response. You obviously just missed my point. George Bush can call himself "religious" but he is not really following what the Bible explains. We wouldn't be at war right now if that was the case.

That is the real problem. Of course the man is religious in his own twisted way. But he discredits religion by his warmonging and other actions.Somehow the church benefits still from his highly religious profile, too!

And no-one actually dares to tell the "most powerful man on Earth" that is he going against this moral anti-violence religious morale. Actually, if the Christian churches were really correct , they would expell him from churches and even excommunicate him.

This would actually give a real statement of honesty from all religions if they were serious about not waging wars against each other; and not try to convert guys from other religious currents, because this is exactly what sets all those currents apart: the power of your religious current and diminishing the other currents by stripping them of their believers.

This would valid for christians excommunicating Bush as well as for Muslims excommunicating Bin Laden and all other assholes killingin the name of god. If the real peace-loving religious people were to be honestwith themselves, they should go out and call for a fatwa on Bin Laden etc......... But this would actually work against that very principle.

But we all know this is not about to happen

Sean Trane wrote: [QUOTE=ivan_2068] This is relatively easy to answer. The fact that god exists in some people's mind is making them enforce their beliefs (and so called morals) to others and calling non-believers evil etc......... A non existing being according to your beliefs, can not ruin anything, it's men percepton and human acts what ruin things. You can't blame the ghosts or the fairies for anything. So it is relatively easy to say that God ruins everything because thereare some people who believe in it and try to enforce their beliefs on everyone else Then blame intolerant or fundamentalist men, not God. Religious people cannot actually come to grips you can be someone great and even more moral than their own beliefs. Real religuious people don't judge others for their beliefs, you can be an atheist, a Mormon, a Jewish or a Muslem and still have clear values. Fanatics are the ones who givereal religious people a bad name. And an atheists is somehow more superior since he observes the society morals without believing into a hypothetical supernatural being judging you after death for your acts , even when he knows  that judgement does not happen and hell does not exist. The atheist is not following rules because he is afraid of God and other stuff. He acts as he believes without someone telling him about those morals on a fear basis. And I thought only religious people are intolerant, so Atheists are now superior to believers.

Iván

Humm, never was very good w/ computers...

will try and post reply to my own reply..........OK am lost.

OK, Mr. Cinema;

As far as I am concerned, God did ruin Spocks beard, since I am an admitted selfish music lover. we are all truly selfish about what we love, it is our taste that defines us. Mr. Morse left Spocks beard to travel on his own religious journey, I found his leaving the band akin to Ian Anderson leaving Jethro Tull, the band lost its singer and songwriter, its 'heart', simple as that. Yes, they have continued, but the albums are not really the same band, few would argue with that. The first CD was arguably the worst of the bands career, with 'Octane', we have a better CD but nothing compared to what they did with Neal. Infact it is barely prog if you actually seperated the tracks in the epic and took out the obligitory Mellotron, it is almost a simple rock album. Their versions of Neal's songs on the new live CD are simply not the same, they miss his element.

Neal, is without doubt one of the genres greatest talents. He is an able songwriter who has defined his own style very precisely. Yes, his lyrics have obviously taken on a huge religious tone, but it could be seen coming to a certain extent in songs like 'Stranger in your soul' and the album 'Snow'. I offer no apology for my comments, since I am an admitted atheist. I do reiterate my selfishness towards music, however. I Loved the music Neal made with Spocks beard, it was a wonderful time for prog, their concerts (I saw them many times on the west coast of the USA) were incredible. Now, it has all gone as he follows his path along spiritual discovery. I, feel as though many of us lost something, sorry if that offends you, but it is plainly true. Neal has chosen to not merely write songs on issues that affect him and us, giving his opinions, but he has created entire albums (three now) that preach his ideals. So yes, he has gone beyond simply stating opinions on issues, politics, environmental ideals, love problems etc etc..

So in a nutshell, yes, he has lost a fan. And, no, I have not bought either of the two albums since 'Testimony', I sold that on Ebay after a week. I have heard both 'one' and '?' and they both have the same good (if slightly repetitive, by now) music back bone, but they follow the same religious themes which is simply not to my taste. As a musician who has experienced the music industry in its very worst form, I fully understand the beast it is. Neal has gotten himself into a region by which he can now live from his music, which I applaud him for ...totally, but I DO feel that alot of this income he generates comes from his progressive output, which he now has converted into another preaching method. So, yes, I can say 'no' to his music now, and I will. However, I can still reserve the right to say I disagree with his ideals and I CAN be selfish about what I like and the music he used to make before his entire recorded output became religiously based. Glass hammer are religious people, but they simply realise that putting an overtly religious tone to their music may offend some people, so they steer clear of it. It would be llike backing yourself into a corner.

As for how much religious material offends people, well, simply put; Religion to non believers is beyond hypocritical, it is so unashamedly presumptuous to think that a 'higher being' is responsible for everything that ever was and yet has caused nothing but problems and sickening acts from day one. It is quite simply within everyones mind. Morals are our own responsiblity and frankly many 'church going folk' (including the preachers) are lacking those in large quantities.

So the only real conclusion I can come to is that Neal is happy, good for him. I am truly happy for him, but that does not stop ME from saying " I think you ruined a consistently decent band by leaving it for your beliefs". I can say that, since he released his music for us to have and enjoy.

It is completely down to opinion, my friend, everyone has one, just like they all have an asshole. Mine is just a music loving selfish one, but then we are all selfish about something eh?