We -need- progressive rap.

My god, what are you thinking? That's like insane! I'm not sure if prog is a black man's thing(not meant to offend.) I mean, they usually lean towards the music that make people dance and songs that you can sing along with. Prog rock contains neither of those. That's not to say I don't like either one, but still, it's not quite there. However, prog funk?

I don't know if it could exist, and I certainly don't "need" prog rap. There's way too much stuff I'd check out before buying a rap album hoping to find prog elements 
I guess It'd be interesting for some people, but not for me.

Genesisprog wrote:    Some have gone insane.Ok one day some wacko comes out with idea to mix prog with punk.

     Where have you been? Punk has already been mixed with
progressive elements as early as 1981, on Fred Frith's Gravity,
then his power punk trio with Bill Laswell and Fred Maher
called Massacre, around 1984, who regularly punked in 5/8
and 7/8. So that was all over 20 years ago! John Zorn's Naked
City had a healthy dose of punk, and that's influenced most of
the new progressive that's of any interest. The new progressive
music worthy of the name doesn't live in a 70s time capsule, it
uses elements of any all musical styles and forges something
new out of them.

well metal and rap have been tried out...did not work

Dick Heath wrote: goose wrote:   Fusion is a mixture of jazz and rock, . Be careful with your definitions. Fusion is not solely jazz and rock, it is jazz and any other musical form. ( e.g. see Syz's thread about Joe Harriott/Johnh Mayers Indo Jazz Fusions). It is just bloody lazy jazz critics  (and indeed eminent ones) and record industry, have corrupted the term since the mid-80's without respecting the history of the genre.

Great point Dick. I always felt uncomfortable about Fusion being assumed as the mixture of Jazz and Prog, as you say Fusion is the blending of Jazz and any other genre in a limited sense, because Fusion is the blending of two different genres, not necesarilly Jazz has to be involved.

For example, Renaissance is a fusion of Symphonic Prog, Rock, Ethnic/Celtic music and Medieval Classical, because they blend all those genres or influences into their music.

I would feel more comfortable with Prog/Jazz or Prog/Jazz Fusion than with the name Fusion or Jazz Fusion.

Goose wrote:

Space rock is largely texture and sound based. I mentioned art rock and I don't know what Euro Prog is  Certainly neither fusion nor space rock need melody to remain fusion or space rock, although of course many bands in both do employ melody

About Euro Prog', ask DallasBryan, he's an expert in Kosmische (Sorry if it's badly spelled).

Melody plays an important part in Fusion and/or Space Rock, of course there are different textures, improvisations and  conception of music, but all this differences surround a basic and central melody, only some kinds of experimental Jazz use improvisation without almost no melody (Not part of the Prog Rock genre), but even those have a central melodic idea worked with improvisations.

And Space Rock is mainly melody with spacey atmospheres, probably preeminent in some exceptional cases but there's stil a mllody.

Even Dylan (mentioned by other member) in the Subway Blues (or something similar, not sure about the name), had a folky melody almost as important as his lyrics, probably only Rap can absolutely ignore the concept of melody, there can be Rap without any melodic support (and there is).

Goose wrote:

Surely the exception against the rule is what makes progression anyway?

I think we have discussed this 100 of times and we have agreed  that the concept of Progressive Rock as a genre has no relation with the concepts of Progression or Evolution, Symphonic Bands of today like Magenta or Trespass (Israel) for example are 100% Progressive and they are doing almost exactly the same music that the pioneers in the 70's did (In an outstanding way).

Anglagard even refused in the 90's to add any instruments or recording techniques that were not availlable for the Progressive bands of the 70's, and they are considered as one of the greatest bands in the genre.

Iván

who cares, its a free world... theres a bunch of crazy things around, this might work... or not. Is a matter of time or patience in this case .

peace

ivan_2068 wrote: And where did the idea that prog is melodic, and not repeated anyway? It's only neo prog, symphonic prog (inc Italian), folk prog, art rock and a little prog metal that puts any real emphasis on melody, and long stretches of zeuhl songs are equally as repetitive as many rap beats. What anout Fusion, Canterbury, Proto Prog, Psychedelia, Prog Realted, Space Rock, Art Rock, Euro Prog, etc? Prog is mainly a combination of influences, styles and mostly melodic, I don't see anything as repetive as Rap in Prog', maybe a few songs, but again the exception doesn't describe a genre. Iván

Fusion is a mixture of jazz and rock, and so its emphasis is improvisation. Space rock is largely texture and sound based. I mentioned art rock and I don't know what Euro Prog is. Certainly neither fusion nor space rock need melody to remain fusion or space rock, although of course many bands in both do employ melody. Surely the exception against the rule is what makes progression anyway?

By the way, I'm not arguing that prog rap does exist, that it can exist, or that it should exist, but just that people's opposition to it doesn't hold water from my point of view.

Edited by goose

sleeper wrote: As i said before i wont hold it against any band that tries to fuse the two genres but i personally wont be tacking that much interest in it as the vocal style i feel is totally inferier to proper singing

You don't listen to much Bob Dylan, do you?  

Genesisprog wrote:    Some have gone insane.Ok one day some wacko comes out with idea to mix prog with punk.

FFS. Prog and Punk are not mutually exclusive. GET OVER IT.

magog wrote: Fantastic idea!! After prog-metal now we have prog-rap...why don't you accept you don't like prog and listen what you want without involving this noble genre?

Prog is my genre of choice, and has been since I became an active music listener.  Why can't you accept that I'm happy being forward-thinking, and feel no need to try to lock a genre as broad and brilliant as prog into some pigeonhole?