Prog Metal: Organizing the categories

Bob Greece wrote: When will these new prog metal genres be finalised and be linked into the main page?

Yeah, we wanna know when METAL is gonna take over!

^ there is a huge list of bands from all kinds of genres that will be dealt with first ...

My plan is to finalize the new prog metal categories within one week from now, and then we'll turn towards a discussion of the new bands ... feel free to suggest more bands in the meantime!

There are still a few things with the chart that i would change.

Looking at the criteria for each progressive metal sub-genre you have listed on your chart, left me a little confused with some questions and I felt the information somewhat incomplete and ambiguous to me.  For instance you have orchestral/symphonic words popping up in Progressive Power and you have avant-garde and jazz-fusion in the criteria for Symphonic Prog?   This was all very confusing to me.  Adagio uses the Avigon Symphony Orchestra to back him up on his recordings.  If his music is not neo-classical or symphonic influenced, I don't know what is? 

This motivated me to do a little research of my own and I came up with the following "definitions" that I feel give a better and clearer view of what is progressive metal and all it's related sub-genres. I would appreciate some comments - this is by no means the only definitions and should be considered as a work in progress - I’m sure you’ll all agree that there is some merit in providing more details to define each individual progressive metal sub-genres. A more in-depth look at the "criteria" for each sub-genre with very little or no overlapping criteria will help define each sub-genre and band more clearly...

Progressive Metal:

Progressive metal is a heavy brand of progressive rock which is characterized by the use of complex compositional structures, odd time signatures and some intricate virtuoso influenced instrumental playing. The high level of musical proficiency is often combined with lyrical/textual ideas, resulting in lengthy songs and concept albums. As a result of these factors, progressive metal is rarely heard on mainstream radio.

Progressive Power Metal:

In my view, the criteria for this sub-genre would include the above definition of progressive metal with the following specific influences: fast rhythms, high-pitched vocals, guitar soloing and guitar harmonics.

Neo-Classic Progressive Metal or Symphonic Progressive Metal:

Always keeping in mind the definition for progressive metal, the music of these sub-genres will normally have a strong relationship with classical music and will include related keyboard orchestrations or will be accompanied by a partial or a full symphony/orchestra. You’ll find musicians here love to play extended guitar or keyboard solos, consisting of blinding arpeggios and flurries of precisely picked notes. Neo-Prog Metal is NOT as sophisticated as Symphonic Prog Metal.

Avant-Garde Progressive Metal:

Avant-Garde is taken from the French for "vanguard," which is the part of the armed forces that always stands at the front of the rest of the army. In the case of music, the avant-garde are those individuals who take music to the next step in development or at least take music on a divergent path. In popular idioms it is a term used to describe or refer to free jazz movements but the meaning remains the same: techniques of expression that are new, innovative and radically different from the traditional popular or the mainstream.

Experimental Progressive Metal:

Experimental music is a general label for any music that pushes existing boundaries and genre definitions, be it in rock, jazz, metal, modern composition or any other style. When a musician or composer's approach is a hybrid of various styles, or incorporates unorthodox, new, distinctly unique ingredients in which progressive metal elements abound, the music could be classified as Experimental Progressive Metal.

Progressive Fusion Metal or Progressive Shred Metal:

The word Fusion has been so liberally used that it's almost become meaningless today. Fusion's definition can best be described as a mixture of jazz improvisations with the influence of progressive metal.  Guitar virtuoso Steve Vai and keyboard virtuoso Jordan Rudess fall under the Progressive Shred banner.

Progressive Gothic Metal:

Mix loud guitars with aggressive heavy metal, ethereal synths and spooky textures and essentially what you got is Gothic metal. Now add progressive metal influences to the mix and voila, Progressive Gothic Metal is born.

Progressive Doom Metal:

Feel and mood are of the essence here. Extremely slow, heavy and sludgy pace and down-tuned guitars are met to evoke a sense of impending doom. Add progressive elements to the mix and you’ve got Progressive Doom Metal all figured out.

Extreme Progressive Metal (Progressive Black Metal, Progressive Death Metal and Progressive Thrash Metal):

In addition to the definition of Progressive Metal, the music of these sub-genres can mostly be characterized as fast, brutal and visceral. The rhythm section will often have this sudden acceleration in speed and tempo with accompanying harsh/growling/guttural vocals usually leading the way.

Comments?

Of course we'll always have some bands trying to cross sub-genres in order to be more innovative and original.  Nothing wrong with that.  This will only make categorizing a band and/or categorizing the albums they release a little harder to pin-point in one sub-genre.

Here's the definition of Symphonic Prog from the archives:

This is the category where we find most of what we have come to know as progressive rock bands. The aspect of orchestration is the most important characteristic. Songs will be longish, contain extended solos for emphasis, changes in time and tempo, and more than any other category highlighted by strong dynamics and changes in mood. Very much an album oriented classification, like classical rock much was borrowed in terms of arrangement and structure. Lyrics involve many aspects, but typically more philosophical or fantasy oriented even in their telling of modern day subjects.

Useful_Idiot wrote: I still have a few complaints... Sigh is a black metal band, I have no idea why they're under power metal. Their samples sound not black at all. If you know an entire album, I'll take your word for it ... Opeth coined the term "progressive death metal", to not list them under it seems ridiculous. I know what you mean, but their music isn't Death Metal at all. The earliest albums may in some passages remind of Death Metal, but if you focus on the compositions and forget the growls for a moment ... I don't know about you, but in my opinion they are for more similar to the bands that I list in the Avant/Post genre than to any Extreme band, let alone Death. Control Denied have nothing to do with death metal aisde from Chuck Schuldiner's membership.  He formed CD to get away from death metal, and would probably be spinning in his grave to see them classified as such.  They're closer to power metal. Maybe Jody can comment on this, I'm not really familiar with Control Denied. Wouldn't the Experimental genre be more appropriate? Wouldn't Petrucci's solo career be closer to progressive shred? Agreed.

Thanks for your comments! Keep them coming, the more metal fans comment on this, the better it will be - nobody knows all the bands.

MikeEnRegalia wrote: Vanwarp wrote: Neo-Classic Progressive Metal or Symphonic Progressive Metal: Always keeping in mind the definition for progressive metal, the music of these sub-genres will normally have a strong relationship with classical music and will include related keyboard orchestrations or will be accompanied by a partial or a full symphony/orchestra. You’ll find musicians here love to play extended guitar or keyboard solos, consisting of blinding arpeggios and flurries of precisely picked notes. Neo-Prog Metal is NOT as sophisticated as Symphonic Prog Metal. You are confusing Symphonic, Symphonic and Symphonic here. Symphonic Prog Rock has nothing to do with either neo classicAL music or symphony orchestras. Where is the symphony orchestra in Close To The Edge ... Orchestral/Neo-classical ... that is what you are referring to IMO, and like it or not - those elements sit better with Power Metal than NEo/Symphonic Prog. BTW: One of the initial reasons for me to split Prog Metal was to separate Therion and Pain of Salvation. Orchestral vs. Symphonic.

Orchestral/Neo-classical has nothing to do with Power?  I don't know where you found that?  We do find many bands mixing both though, but some are strictly Power, while others strictly Neo-classical.

Did you ever think that Close To The Edge is not symphonic prog?

Sorry, by your own definitions, orchestral and symphonic go hand in hand! 

Radioactive Toy wrote: Kohllapse wrote: SECRET CHIEFS 3 ULVER   I wonder if they will stay. Ulver's blood inside is Progressive progressive music. This is a band that makes something great and NEVER sticks with that! It's always re-inventing himself.

as with that:

 "This ain't rock'n roll. This is evolution on such a grand scale that most bands wouldn't even be able to wrap their tiny little minds around it."

Useful_Idiot wrote: I still have a few complaints... Sigh is a black metal band, I have no idea why they're under power metal. Control Denied have nothing to do with death metal aisde from Chuck Schuldiner's membership.  He formed CD to get away from death metal, and would probably be spinning in his grave to see them classified as such.  They're closer to power metal.

I already metioned these but noone agreed with me.

MikeEnRegalia wrote: ^ now I'm confused. I said that Orchestral/Neo-classical has a lot to do with Power Metal. But Symphonic Prog has nothing to do with Orchestral/Neo-classical. In essence: Close to the Edge has nothing to do with Orchestral/Neo-classical.

I believe Progressive Neo-classical/Symphonic/Orchestral Metal all have something in common with classical music and related orchestrations being at the core of the music.  Progressive Power Metal actually stands alone as it does not always contain classical music influences.  But I agree some Progressive Power Metal bands do mix some elements of Neo-classical, Symphonic or Orchestral influences of some sort into their music.

So, although the music of the bands that put out progressive neo-classical, symphonic or orchestral metal may vary considerably, they will all be heavily influenced by classical music and the orchestrations that usually accompany that particular sub-genre of music.  Adagio is a fine example of a progressive band that mixes neo-classical influences with power metal.  But no progressive power metal band sounds exactly like Adagio which clearly fall under the Neo-classical Progressive Power Metal tag.

Just my .02 cents!