Let’s Talk About Musical Form

I reckon Tony R will lock this thread for about 8 hours and delete some of my posts!

There arent too many things in my mind ART takes a backseat to

goose wrote: I like the form of that response - a reprise of the third word "f**kING" near the end, but cut short as if to suggest a loss of temper. Very well composed.

Yes....the man is obviously a literary master too!

I don't know if a sensible post is required anymore in this thread, but i'll post it anyway because i like this 'debate' 

Proglover, i'm not sure on your basis for arguing that music is in the same field as medicine.

Medicine is based on pre-existing certainties. When a surgeon performs an oporation they are altering something that has a clear, defined state of existence and rules. The surgeon does not create anything at all.
The musician or painter creates something born from his own mind, often influenced by other things, but still of his own mind. The human mind is not something that has rules or even something we can comprehend to any great extent. So i'm really not sure how you can lump art and medicine together.
A sound engineer is slightly closer to a surgeon, but even then the outcome of a mix, the production of a song has no clear cut good or bad label. For example i consider some albums to have very fitting production while others would say the same album is an abomination of production.

And do not think that anybody is disagreeing with you that form exists and that there are clean, simplistic (yet evocative) forms, and there are crazy, all over the place forms. All we're trying to say is that you have no authority on sticking the words 'good' or 'bad' on those forms and telling the whole world that your way is the definitive answer to which is good and which is bad. I know i'm repeating myself but i'm just not sure you understand what people are trying to say.

 I agree with your Yes v Genesis remark on musical structure.  I am still discovering all the motifs and themes that are reworked throughout Topographic Oceans. I guess that previous to this, Heart of the Sunrise (with its mixing and juxtaposing of short motifs throughout) is a great early example. It's clearly NOT verse-chorus structure but something far more classical in construction (though not in any 'conventional' classical form - it would be wrong to expect this from prog unless it's consciously alluded too like Emerson's stunning Fugue). Also Close to the Edge uses form so successfully that the final "I Get Up, I Get Down" is a wonderfully sublime moment because it has been prepared and constructed artfully throughout the movement. Some pieces which will reward close analysis are Eruption (Focus), Midnight Mushrumps (Gryphon), an extended three-part suite distinguished by its modality: major group of themes - minor - major), and of course, Starless (King Crimson) which delights on a cerebral as well as a visceral level.

Supper's Ready is at heart a series of songs linked together with some recapitulations (as much as Plague of Lighthouse Keepers, or Side 2 of Abbey Road)

One note: Saying Yes was superior to, or even close to being as good as Genesis in the compositional department, is preposterous. Granted, Yes had a more likable style, but they certainly didn't have the compositional ability to be measured with Genesis. That doesn't mean that either is better than the other, but it's two clear and distinctive attributes of each band, you can identify them with.

The ultimate would be the compostional genius of Genesis played with the sound of Yes.

If you do not want me to respond in anger I would seriously suggest that all of you stop using my name in your posts.......I do not want to get angry but I was provoked for no reason. Keep your insults to yourself and I wont have to behave like a mad man.

Perhaps its a good idea to close this thread all together