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Topic ClosedREORGANISING PROG METAL
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Poll Question: Is it a good idea to re-organise prog-metal categories on this site?
Poll Choice Votes Poll Statistics
19 [63.33%]
9 [30.00%]
2 [6.67%]
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Phil View Drop Down
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Points: 1881 		Direct Link To This Post Topic: REORGANISING PROG METAL
    Posted: October 27 2005 at 09:36
Thought someone would have done this by now....I've been following some of the debate on re-organising "Prog-Metal". I think whatever happens Mike has a thankless task!! I don't doubt for a minute that it's all being done with the best of intentions.

So are you a prog-metal fan who thinks there should be more sophistication in categorisation of your favourite bands? Or are you someone who (like me) before visiting this site didn't know anything about prog-metal at all....would further categorisation confuse you....or might it help you explore this area of music further?

ps this is only meant as a "straw poll" and is not meant to take the debate away from the main thread!!
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Mahonster View Drop Down
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Points: 52 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 27 2005 at 11:20
I say no if you mean subdividing the genres on this site even more. Why? Because there's always going to be problems in catagorising bands in genres, so by forming more sub-genres, you're just adding more complications into the mix. I think prog-metal is specific enough.
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Tristan Mulders View Drop Down
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Points: 1723 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 28 2005 at 12:37

I came up with the idea (but suppose wasn't the only one thinking about it) so I'd say YES!
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Logos View Drop Down
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Points: 2383 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 28 2005 at 12:41
Yes, prog-metal, as it is, is a mess.
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Points: 10261 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 28 2005 at 12:47
I'll restate my opinion: The whole project was started badly. If we go re-organizing sub-genrés at all, then let's tackle the big ones first (Art Rock and Symphonic). At least the proposal should have been something like this:

I propose that we reorganize the genrés a little by subdividing the genrés further. We need volunteers for reorganising:

Art Rock
Symphonic
Krautrock
Prog-Metal
etc.

I myself volunteer for prog-metal. The way it is done now is extremely lopsided. Thius is not the prog-metal archives.

This I would have fully appreciated. But I reject the way Mike went about it. It is lopsided and nothing but a big ballyhoo about prog-metal.

Edited by BaldFriede


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eduardossc View Drop Down
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Points: 257 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 28 2005 at 13:33

Originally posted by Phil Phil wrote:

...would further categorisation confuse you....or might it help you explore this area of music further?

 Hi Phil:

  You know what would happen if this site decides to make a hundred different categories for "MEtal prog"?....

 Well, many like you, who didn´t know about metal prog before this site, (Neither did I, and had heard Dream theatre for years thinking they played metal with a little and interesting twist)  will come and read about ..I don´t know, 5 different categories. When they listen to one representative band from each, and find out they sound the same or barely different, they´ll be confused and will lose motivation to keep looking into the other categories.

 Plus, what´s the point of separating one band from others just for a particular detail in their sound, mood, style?...I say, just let music be.  

 

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Points: 2383 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 28 2005 at 14:33

Originally posted by BaldFriede BaldFriede wrote:

This I would have fully appreciated. But I reject the way Mike went about it. It is lopsided and nothing but a big ballyhoo about prog-metal.

He was asked to do it, wasn't he?



Edited by Logos
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stinkfist View Drop Down
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Points: 92 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 28 2005 at 15:23
havin genres at all is just a bad idea
but if you MUST divide there should only be four

Prog Metal

Proto-Prog

Prog Rock

and a band can fit into all three categories
how can this mean anything to me?
when i really dont feel a thing at all
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goose View Drop Down
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Points: 4097 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 28 2005 at 19:06
Originally posted by eduardossc eduardossc wrote:

When they listen to one representative band from each, and find out they sound the same or barely different, they´ll be confused and will lose motivation to keep looking into the other categories.
I think anyone actually listening would be able to discern quite considerable difference...
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sleeper View Drop Down
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Points: 16449 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 28 2005 at 19:39

I have supported Mike from the time he started the main thread so my answer is most definatly yes.

I notice the debate on reorganizing symphonic prog has dropped of
Spending more than I should on Prog since 2005

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The Miracle View Drop Down
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Points: 28427 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 28 2005 at 20:24

No, let's leave things as they are.

as I said before:

I think there's nothing wrong with all the sub-organization of genres. If someone has the time to do all this work, I think it's fine. It will make PA look more detailed and professional. On the other hand the sub organization is pretty useless because few people really care about the sub sub genres. "prog metal" or "symphonic prog" is enough for a person to know whether to research further on a band or not. All the sub sub genres will  only be used by PA because no one else before cared enough to do it... which shows that wasn't necessary. And if sub organize, then it should of course be done to symphonic and prog metal, for they have the greatest diversity. There's too few zeuhl or krautrock and they're too original to be sub categorized like that. Another minus is that the sub categorization will spawn countless amounts of threads and arguments about what belongs where and what doesn't. And no one will come to any agreement because it is impossible. The borders inside a sub genre are too obscure to be able to organize them accurately. 
The cons are much stronger than pros in this case.
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MikeEnRegalia View Drop Down
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Points: 21138 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 29 2005 at 08:19

Originally posted by BaldFriede BaldFriede wrote:

I'll restate my opinion: The whole project was started badly. If we go re-organizing sub-genrés at all, then let's tackle the big ones first (Art Rock and Symphonic). At least the proposal should have been something like this:

I propose that we reorganize the genrés a little by subdividing the genrés further. We need volunteers for reorganising:

Art Rock
Symphonic
Krautrock
Prog-Metal
etc.

I myself volunteer for prog-metal. The way it is done now is extremely lopsided. Thius is not the prog-metal archives.

This I would have fully appreciated. But I reject the way Mike went about it. It is lopsided and nothing but a big ballyhoo about prog-metal.

So what if I had gone about it that way, had created that post and then had got started to work on Prog Metal ... would you then have agreed with splitting Prog Metal? Or are you just generally opposed to splitting Prog Metal, and are now trying to find reasons to make me look bad? Well, I guess that the old saying is right:

No good deed goes unpunished.

Well, I will to continue to organise Prog Metal anway. I doubt that it will be implemented too soon though, so you'll have plenty of time to reorganise the other genres as well. Maybe we could add a non-metal category for each added metal category (or 1.5 for each new metal category, to be precise) in order to ensure that Prog Metal remains underrepresented (10% of the bands, but only 6.6% of the categories)?

 



Edited by MikeEnRegalia
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Snow Dog View Drop Down
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Points: 32995 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 29 2005 at 09:10

Mike, although I don't fully support the splitting of prog Metal or any Genre further, I fully support the way you have conducted yourself throughout this whole episode!

It seems to me either sour grapes by the Bald duo or that they think thats everything has to be ok'd by them first.

Carry on Mike you  are gaining a supporter who was a little against these new subdivisions, but is now due to the reactions of the Bald pair fully behind you!
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Tristan Mulders View Drop Down
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Points: 1723 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 29 2005 at 11:45
Originally posted by Snow Dog Snow Dog wrote:

Mike, although I don't fully support the splitting of prog Metal or any Genre further, I fully support the way you have conducted yourself throughout this whole episode!

It seems to me either sour grapes by the Bald duo or that they think thats everything has to be ok'd by them first.

Carry on Mike you  are gaining a supporter who was a little against these new subdivisions, but is now due to the reactions of the Bald pair fully behind you!

Bravo! I was just about the say the same thing!

 

although I fully support the splitting of the genre



Edited by king16
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