’Duke’ By Genesis

I think Duke is a great album - co-incidentally, bar the tracks you mention, Andy. It was the gang of 3's answer to the 1980s. Personally I think that ATTWT was too much of an effort to sound like the old Genesis. Duke sounds like a forward thinking (ie Progressing) Genesis, which is but one reason to like and respect it.

As for the reviewer wondering why we consider albums in terms of prog on a prog rock site - has he got his head up his bum or something?

Crivens!

Invisible Touch may suck in my opinion, but I'll blinking well consider it in terms of whether it's prog or not simply because that (to me) is why I review it on PROG Archives. If I reviewed it on SUCKYMUSIC Archives, then it might be a 5 starrer...

 

Duke is the first album by Genesis I've heard. Turn it on again is as good as pop can be, Behind the lines and duchess are decent but Duke's Travel / Duke's End must be their best post-Hackett "song".

Duke may not be on the same level as Gabriel-era Genesis but the Genesis of 1980 couldn't sound like Genesis 1974, or else they wouldn't be a progressive band. And of course, if Gabriel isn't with the band, they can't sound like Gabriel-era Genesis.

Edited by Frasse

Duke is one of the best Genesis albums as a trio. It's less proggy than ATTWT but is more coherent. On ATTWT they were searching for a sound, they were evolving as songwriters and wanted something fresh, IMO on Duke they succeeded on that. So I'd say that while ATTWT is a more progressive record, Duke is an overall better album. Personally, I couldn't tell you which of them is my favourite.

SlipperFink wrote: "Turn it on" is the only hit radio single largely in 5/4 in the history of radio(as far as I'm aware).

"Livin' in the Past" by Jethro Tull was in 5/4. So was "Take Five" by The Dave Brubeck Quartet. Both of these received significant radio play, though it was quite a long time ago.

"Turn It On Again" probably wins the award for weirdest "pop" time signature, but isn't is 5/4; it's in 13/4.  Alternating measures of 6/4 + 7/4. The chorus and breaks are straight 4/4, though.

I lost interest when Steve Hackett and Peter Gabriel left the group. Phil Collins is a very good drummer and sang good second vocals with Gabriel, but I do not want to hear his solo stuff. I did like Calling All Stations and I believe the Ray Wilson Genesis should have persisted. 

I come down firmly on the 'pro' Duke side of the fence (I even forgive them for the use of a cheesy 1980s drum machine); not to everyone's taste, certainly, but still containing enough powerful compositions to rank Duke up there with their finest work. Dukes Travels/Dukes End (with the reprise of 'Guide Vocal') - majestic.

My only reservation is that when Banks & Rutherford heard the initial demo of 'Misunderstanding', they should have taken Collins out the back, shot him, then called Hackett & begged his forgiveness.

Kid-A wrote: Orbert wrote: SlipperFink wrote: "Turn it on" is the only hit radio single largely in 5/4 in the history of radio(as far as I'm aware). "Livin' in the Past" by Jethro Tull was in 5/4. So was "Take Five" by The Dave Brubeck Quartet. Both of these received significant radio play, though it was quite a long time ago. "Turn It On Again" probably wins the award for weirdest "pop" time signature, but isn't is 5/4; it's in 13/4.  Alternating measures of 6/4 + 7/4. The chorus and breaks are straight 4/4, though.    13/8 i think

Maybe. And I'll give you that 13/4 versus 13/8 is usually just a matter of "how you count it". But in this case, since it's already a complex time sig, why not just give the quarter note the beat? If you call it 13/8, then those droning fifths and the hi-hat taps are slow sixteenths. If you have the choice between a steady quarter note and a slow eighth note and either one could be the beat, why needlessly complicate things?

Here's how I hear it (this will be ugly, but hopefully will get the point across):

(one) All I need is a TV show (six)

That and the radio (six seven)

(one two) Down on my luck again (six)

Down on my luck again (six seven)

And then it goes into straight four.  4/8 versus 4/4 is similarly open to debate, I suppose, but if the hook and refrain are both 4/4, then the verse is 13/4, not 13/8.

Mark me down as another one who prefers Duke and Abacab to ATTWT.  Actually, I prefer them both to Nursery Cryme, an overrated Genesis album if there ever was one.  If ATTWT was indicative of the kind of music that trio Genesis was going to make if they continued to try and have it both ways, I'm glad they embraced a new style and went in a different direction with Duke. 

Duke is a great Genesis album IMO. There are few pop songs, but I like all of them too. Remember, that there were poppy songs in the Gabriel-era Genesis albums too (More Fool Me, Counting Out Time, ...)

In my opinion, Duke is easily the best post-70s Genesis albums. My favourite tracks are Behind The Lines, Heathaze, Turn It On Again, Cul-De-Sac and the grand end: Duke's Travels and Duke's End.

richardh wrote: Anyway I'm interested to know what people think of the concept of this album.I've always thought it was about themselves as a band.They actually seem to be writing their own obituary as a prog band..at least that is what the lyrics come across to me as especially on 'Duchess'.I wonder if anyone else sees it that way?!

If I remember correctly, Duke was made during the time Phil was going on with his first divorce. So, I always thought it was heavily inspired by this. But your theory is intresting, the lyrics of Duchess really fit to that theory.

Blacksword wrote: For me this was the last great Genesis album. A prog album, but with a few unpleasant indicators of what was to come. Do you guys like this album, or is it too pop for you?

I agree with you. It contained the last great solos from Banks and still had many of the hallmarks of the previous 3 albums (e.g. Taurus pedals used lavishly).

The tour was fantastic as was the 2 day que for tickets.