The Uncarved Blog, part 1

sularetal wrote: . I agree with that as its easier to find nerdy people here rather than in www.music_for_the_masses.com/forum for example.

OK, confession time - who else clicked on this?

The link takes you to the same thread....

OpethGuitarist wrote: sularetal wrote:    Sure, there are nerds. I was talking with toolis the other day and he was surprised. He told me he had read things in these forums which made "prog-people" seem rather nerdy. I agree with that as its easier to find nerdy people here rather than in www.music_for_the_masses.com/forum for example.    Everybody has the need to belong somewhere, as a human being. Some people choose to be trendy, others to be hooligans, others to be "strange" etc. All these are groups. Everybody should belong somewhere. Even people who seem to be in their own world belong in the group of strange people. I think thats a proof of our existance somehow. When somebody doesnt belong somewhere he will try for example to become a five star member in a forum or have for example 30,000 posts. This is nerdy to me...     I would also like to express my opinion about other music genres. I think that music is, or at least should be written when somebody has something to express by it. Fear, love, anger... whatever. Of course everybody needs to be able to survive, have a home, feed his family so its also a matter of money too, but when money begin to take over and become more important thn expression thats when the music suck (at least for me).    I remember a forum asking "is prog the best genre" though I cant find it now . Anyway I think that most people on PA consider prog to be "the best" genre. To me thats not at all true. You may not like other genres but you cant say its crap. For example punk is not technical or demanding at all. However punk is not pure crap. It was people expressing their anger by it. I cant listen to Sex Pistols either but I respect them. There are punk bands that I like but when we call punk bands like green day we're completely losing the point. Hip hop too. Is hip hop crap? To me no. Even if its not really music (samples and talking really). Is 50 cent hip hop? NO, surely not!    Apart from genres like classical and jazz we must understand that even other genres have amazing music to show. Mabye simple, not as demanding music but a clash record may express a hell lot more than a pretentious Elp one (dont get me wrong i love elp).      I also agree with what you say about prog rocks recognition. Its like the bands that you really like and sometimes you dont what to get your friend into cause its something you want to keep for yourself. Thats not right though.... I dont know about you guys but I would surely like to have more people around me who listen to prog and talk with them instead of a forum. Surely people who would just listen to prog cause it would be fashionable would be a nightmare. Its strange though.... i dont see people listen to music. I mean, of course everybody listens to music, but at the moment I can only think of a few people who listen to entire cds and not "hits". Thats what's sad....    Music is not art anymore. Generaly art is not in our life anymore. I'm only 16 I dont know if it was but I think this world is very pretentious. Everybody is the image he wants the others to have about him. I dont know why this is happening and thats why I think most prog listeners are unsocial. I dont know.... mabye its because prog listeners belong in the minority. We mostly have an appearence different to the usual. I dont think its bad.... I think we are ourselfs. I dont know about you but when I see someone different from the others thats when i'm interested to know him. I think most of you are like that but i'm not sure. very impressive response, especially from a 16 year old, I wish I had learned as much when I was your age.I would disagree with your theory that we all need to belong somewhere. There are plenty of what I would call hermits who lead happy lives. Biologically, yes, we have a need for companionship. However, biology does not always equate to what happens in highly centralized nervous systems like the human being. For example, biologically we are not supposed to be monogomous, but many of us do take that route, and enjoy it fully. Also, biologically we are not able to use computers, yet we learn to ADAPT. In the end we just have to adapt to our surroundings or change them, and change is usually difficult and near impossible given the scope of what must be done. The biggest thing we must do is adapt our needs and interest as music lovers into society. To me its not really important who listens or doesnt listen to what I listen to. I just listen to things I enjoy, and I am more than happy to have others enjoy it as well.

    
   i stand by your opinion...we don't nessecarily need to belong aomewhere.. BUT: some people choose to do so... people who choose not to belong somewhere have already chosen sth... to belong to "the rest", per se... do you get it? it's like that theory that says if we isolate fascists out of our community, we become fascists ourselves... unfortunately, that applies to some prog fans, too... that's what me and sulateral believe... some people, "act" in the PA prompted by their love to prog... but, some others use it as a subterfuge to define themselves in the prog world.. in order to do that, they rule out any other kind of music, post polls like: "is prog the best music?", like sulateral mentioned, post meaningless replies, rate and write reviews to the same 10 masterpieces etc...
   that was my original intention when posting my first reply of this thread...that this is a phenomenon taking place to all aspects of life or kinds of music, since this is our topic... driven by the need of people to belong somewhere and be accepted by their "kindred spirits" behave as mentioned above... BUT, this is not a prog fan distinctive, it's a general human thing.. Aristoteles first stated that man is a sociable being... this kind of behavior applies for all people and fans of all kinds of music..

   Sure, there are nerds. I was talking with toolis the other day and he was surprised. He told me he had read things in these forums which made "prog-people" seem rather nerdy. I agree with that as its easier to find nerdy people here rather than in www.music_for_the_masses.com/forum for example.    Everybody has the need to belong somewhere, as a human being. Some people choose to be trendy, others to be hooligans, others to be "strange" etc. All these are groups. Everybody should belong somewhere. Even people who seem to be in their own world belong in the group of strange people. I think thats a proof of our existance somehow. When somebody doesnt belong somewhere he will try for example to become a five star member in a forum or have for example 30,000 posts. This is nerdy to me...  

(aka Hugues Chantraine)

MAYBE , JUST MAYBE, THE PROGHEAD IS HIS OWN WORST ENEMY!!!!!!

There are a few thoughts that James addressed that prompted me to write this reply.
 
The ‘progginess’ of some bands is always a sticky issue, but when prog buffs meet and want to discuss music outside prog and choose, say, John Martyn (or Tim Buckley), most progheads are aware of him and his lengthy career, and will probably agree on which albums are the best- without ever having exchanged views or opinions about him beforehand, and precisely for the progressive criteria that our beloved music style has taught us. And should you look in a general music encyclopedia (such as the old Penguin “Who’s Who” series written by Colin Larkin, now under the Virgin banner), you will find that the albums that the writer chooses for an introduction are the very same albums you mentioned to your prog buddy and not the ones that sold most. How is this possible, that certain of our tastes coincide with this general music writer’s prescriptions- while he will spend much time sl*gging off the groups you enjoy most, and yet he takes great care into minimizing the impact of those very bands? For one thing, that very same writer will assume that we proggers are too obtuse about commercial music, and this insistence at enjoying old bands and their obscure successor is rather anti-social stance- but can we really blame him?

Ever you ever tried to have a non-music conversation about something like football or soccer (knowing the other person is a buff and will not drop the subject easily) while spinning Zappa , Gnidrolog or IQ in your car deck? This may drive you to decide to change the music, switching to the radio or that old Stones tape that is gathering dust in the glovebox compartment. Even then your fave records are unwelcome, because you know damn well it is too tough a music for the given context. So, in general, the proghead will likely shun social occasions to meddle in not-as-deep subjects, because we would really rather be not wasting such precious little time we have into popular discussions and rather head right to our stereo (and headphones if we have to) to reach the musical orgasm we are yearning for. But is this not mental masturbation that we are inflicting on ourselves? Instead of being a little less obtuse and discovering that the beautiful blonde we had left in mid-conversation (because she had never heard of Fripp before) is not a bimbo, but rather someone that could be enlightened- and might just be friendly enough to form the four legged beast that we had hoped for, if we had just stuck around. This is where nerdism starts, and this is self-inflicted! And I do not recognize myself in that cliché, I even am a bit concerned when so many younger progheads are willingly calling themselves ‘nerds’ (as I discovered reading this forum), sometimes even going so far in nerdism that it brings on a looser image on the given youth. Sure we do not enjoy mediocrity in music, but why should the proghead be mediocre in life issues, just because he listens to more evolved musical currents?

Do we really want full recognition of our beloved progressive rock? I am not so sure we do. I do not want to see classic bands as Yes playing to full stadium audiences complete with the whole shebang of radio advertising, huge posters pasted on empty buildings, and finding that everything has been sold-out in two hours. Yes playing to 3000 progheads is much more enjoyable than in front of 60,000 event-goers. I do not want to see newer groups playing to hockey arenas...even though it would be fair for them to enjoy greater success than they currently do, especially for the incredible amount of work that goes into a prog record (I estimate that the effort put out for a prog record is roughly quadruple that of an alternative rock record before recording even starts) but really keep the non-initiated out, because they will hang around taking during that delicious musical passage between the flute to the Mini-Moog. He (the proghead) does not want to have huge spotlights on his focus of attention.

All progheads are asking is for the constant bashing to stop! From reading Brutish Weekly Musical Press, I believe this very bashing is on its way out- but all progheads should make sure they do not sound conceited or obtuse, or else the adverse effect will soon happen again. This is why it is important on sites like ProgArchives to be INCLUSIVE rather than EXCLUSIVE.
 

I think we all enjoy our "elitism" and are proud to be the only one in our neighborhood knowing of, say, Nebelnest, Comus, or Pineapple Thief. Unlike James, I have no neighbor that is a jazz buff ( but I do have roughly some "30 to 50 friends with whom I can discuss "prog-related" subjects), and of course I envy him. But no such luck! Do we really want our dumb neighbor with his ugly dog and his uglier human dog/wife to be listening to VDGG’s Plague Of The Lighthouse Keeper and having thrills as Hammill sings out "I prophecy disaster"? If he did enjoy that, he would be less of an idiot to our eyes and we would be afraid that we might have to take a second look to him and perhaps find out that his dog is a rare breed that gets a lot of attention from women because of their ugliness, his son might not be such a little b*****d after all, and his wife makes an excellent couscous.
 

Progheads complain about the lack of women into the prog realm , but fail to capitalize on the easier side of quality music. Women tend to see music differently than we do, and see it in a more festive manner - dancing and therefore in the longer term, falling in love and mating - instead of an artistic form of expression with all aesthetics considered. Although my girlfriend would certainly agree to the famous statement: "Prog rock? That’s the crap my husband listens to!!", we regularly make love to Days Of Future Past, Hybris (minus the last track) and ITCOTCK (minus Schizoid and the second part of Moonchild). Most of my ex-girlfriends now know of Gentle Giant, Univers Zero and Magma (and do not hate them) and will delight their next partners, should the occasion arise.
 

On a recent holiday, my mother came for a visit. While I drove around to show her the countryside, she actually listened in the car to Gatto Marte, Miles Davis (Sketches Of Spain), Cro-Magnon, and Aphrodite’s Child’s 666 album (three of them are on this site and I am all for the fourth’s inclusion). Not an easy selection, you’ll agree...but she phoned me last week, to my total amazement, to ask which Univers Zero album she’d heard in the living room and whether Julverne were still together- as she loved the En Ballade disc she found in a bargain bin!! WOW!!!! I managed to educate the woman who brought me up (well, she does listen to a lot of classic music but never the 20th century)! And I think I did it by choosing among the records I had in my collection for the ones that I thought she might listen and like. In truth, I’d had a yearning that day for Lard Free’s debut, Maneige’s Libre Service and Jefferson Airplane’s Crown Of Creation. They waited another week before getting their turn for a spin , but man- the little patience I’d had turned out to be completely worth it!!!!!