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Ty1020
Forum Senior Member
Joined: April 24 2005
Location: Canada
Status: Offline
Points: 721
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Posted: September 28 2005 at 21:43 |
Dragonforce is speed metal... I wouldn't put them on this site, but they're an amazing band.
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yesman72
Forum Senior Member
Joined: May 28 2005
Status: Offline
Points: 185
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Posted: September 28 2005 at 22:01 |
I kinda like the idea of Maiden and Priest being added to the site under a prog related category. Maiden and Priest both have admitted to being heavily influenced by Uriah Heep. And on Priest's earlier stuff, especially Sad Wings of Destiny, there's kind of a concept going on and also stuff like the track "Prelude" which led into Tyrant which was exactly the kind of thing prog bands were doing. Aside from that they had a big harmony guitar sound similar to Queen, which are apparently considered prog. "Two Minutes To Midnight" is like a metal orchestra and Maiden's first two albums remind me of Deep Purple and Uriah Heep a lot. But on the other hand, although i do like all the bands mentioned so far, I don't know if i would consider any of them to be honest prog except maybe Heep. But anyway I could live with it. Don't know about Metallica though.
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MikeEnRegalia
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: April 22 2005
Location: Sweden
Status: Offline
Points: 21199
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Posted: September 29 2005 at 01:51 |
FishyMonkey wrote:
Sorry, but I think Tool gets a little too much credit for being a little more than typical. They aren't bad, definitely not, but when people orgasm over their music because they are slightly complex and interesting, it annoys me.
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Sorry, I think they're much more than that. Lateralus is a very sophisticated piece ofo music. It's subjective ... you can neither prove or disprove it.
FishyMonkey wrote:
They belong in prog-related, which is where I think Iron Maiden and Metallica should be. Iron Maiden because they didn't really do anything prog related on purpose, they just stuck to their genre, which was straight heavy metal.
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Agreed on Iron Maiden.
FishyMonkey wrote:
Heavy metal can include keyboards and longish songs. Metallica was just thrash. Dragonforce does thrashy stuff with long suns and keyboards, but we don't have them here because they were simply thrash. Thrash is known to incorporate some keyboards looking back.
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This part doesn't make sense to me. Let's just skip it ...
FishyMonkey wrote:
Now once again, Death is prog because they completely defied the genre they created and had a VERY original sound by TSOP. The ywere prog.
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NO. Being innovative (even if it leds to the creation of a new genre) doesn't necessarily make something Prog. Death's newer album are prog because they are complex, sophisticated AND stepping beyond their "base" genre by adding other influences.
FishyMonkey wrote:
Tool and Iron Maiden and Metallica, while all pretty good bands, are not prog...just cause we like them doesn't make them prog. They all seem prog-related to me.
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Too bad that you can'T see the difference between Tool and Metallica. It's pretty obvious.
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Lindsay Lohan
Forum Senior Member
Joined: May 25 2005
Location: Norway
Status: Offline
Points: 3254
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Posted: September 29 2005 at 02:29 |
Why does you only concider seventh son of a seventh son to be progressive? Is it suddenly more progressive because it is a concept album?
Anyways i would have no problem naming atleast 50 maiden songs wich could fit the term progressive.
Infact if you take forexample the excellent In absentia release from porcupine tree...is it prog..NO...is it prog related...yes but it is still listen under prog...so there are really alot of artists on this page wich can be concidered prog although their arrangements are alot simpler than maidens...and the ones naming red hot chili peppers and megadeth ...they are out of their minds...anyway BRAVE NEW WORLD is the best and perhaps most progressive maiden album and i dont think any of the other artist mentioned can top that in the terms of progressiveness
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Citanul
Forum Senior Member
Joined: June 14 2005
Location: South Africa
Status: Offline
Points: 430
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Posted: September 29 2005 at 07:20 |
Don Quito wrote:
Iron Maiden has a lot of influence from Deep Purple, Yes, Wishbone Ash and Black Sabbath. In fact, their album Seventh Son of a Seventh Son is considered as a concept album featuring a story of a mythical child who possessed clairvoyant powers based on the book Seventh Son by Orson Scott Card.
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Are you sure about that? I don't see any connection between the Maiden album and Card's series, other than the concept of the seventh son of a seventh son, which is an idea that has been around a lot longer than either two.
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Be or be not. There is no question. - Yoda, Prince of Denmark
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Posted: September 29 2005 at 07:26 |
everyone is progrelated okkay
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MikeEnRegalia
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: April 22 2005
Location: Sweden
Status: Offline
Points: 21199
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Posted: September 29 2005 at 07:41 |
maidenrulez wrote:
Why does you only concider seventh son of a seventh son to be progressive? Is it suddenly more progressive because it is a concept album?
Anyways i would have no problem naming atleast 50 maiden songs wich could fit the term progressive.
Infact if you take forexample the excellent In absentia release from porcupine tree...is it prog..NO...is it prog related...yes but it is still listen under prog...so there are really alot of artists on this page wich can be concidered prog although their arrangements are alot simpler than maidens...and the ones naming red hot chili peppers and megadeth ...they are out of their minds...anyway BRAVE NEW WORLD is the best and perhaps most progressive maiden album and i dont think any of the other artist mentioned can top that in the terms of progressiveness
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Porcupine Tree - In Absentia is 100% prog.
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BiGi
Forum Senior Member
Joined: June 01 2005
Location: Italy
Status: Offline
Points: 848
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Posted: September 29 2005 at 07:47 |
MikeEnRegalia wrote:
Having said that, the song might be called Proto-Prog, but not the entire album Powerslave - the better part of it is good "true" Power Metal.
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Well, it contains long and complex songs nevertheless.
As well as Piece of Mind and Somewhere in time, other two that I would insert in the list of prog would-be.
MikeEnRegalia wrote:
on Ride the Lightning they started to experiment with interludes, sophisticated solos and strange harmonies. Master of Puppets is THE Proto-ProgMetal album. |
I agree
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A flower?
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Bilek
Forum Senior Member
VIP Member
Joined: July 05 2005
Location: Turkey
Status: Offline
Points: 1484
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Posted: September 29 2005 at 10:26 |
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Listen to Turkish psych/prog; you won't regret: Baris Manco,Erkin Koray,Cem Karaca,Mogollar,3 Hürel,Selda,Edip Akbayram,Fikret Kizilok,Ersen (and Dadaslar) (but stick with the '70's, and 'early 80's!)
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Andrea Cortese
Special Collaborator
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Joined: September 05 2005
Status: Offline
Points: 4411
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Posted: September 29 2005 at 11:43 |
The first album I've bought with my first pay!
GREAT!
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Snow Dog
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: March 23 2005
Location: Caerdydd
Status: Offline
Points: 32995
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Posted: September 29 2005 at 12:21 |
R_DeNIRO wrote:
I think Metallica and Iron Maiden's early period (1983-1989 in case of Metallica; 1980-1988 in case of Maiden) have to be included in the prog-related subgenre.
Thoughts?
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I have to admit, I misread this before I replied. I thought it read that Maiden and Metallica have been included!
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Wolf Spider
Forum Senior Member
Joined: August 04 2005
Location: Poland
Status: Offline
Points: 1617
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Posted: September 29 2005 at 12:24 |
This is a joke, right? Please tell met it is
NO Metallica and Iron Maiden never were and probably never be prog
realted! Stop this nonsence! Iron Maiden is the founder of NWOBHM,
thats New Wave Of British HEAVY METAL! Heavy metal not prog metal, not
prog realted heavy metal, not even
wery-close-but-not-exactly-prog-related-heavy-metal
Pure heavy metal- you know heavy metal- hard rock but faster and heavier! Nothing to do with prog.
The same with Metallica.
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Seyo
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: May 08 2004
Location: Bosnia
Status: Offline
Points: 1320
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Posted: September 29 2005 at 12:36 |
Sure, why not!!?? Then rename the site to MetalArchives and that's it - and I am out of here... for good...
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magog
Forum Senior Member
Joined: September 06 2005
Status: Offline
Points: 218
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Posted: September 29 2005 at 12:41 |
I think real prog died in the end of the 70's with last valuable albums from prog-bands of early 70's,
(Songs from the wood, Breathless,Quite zone-Pleasure dome); I generally
don't trust in 80's prog (with some exception) and of corse metal is
metal for my idea of prog.
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magog
Forum Senior Member
Joined: September 06 2005
Status: Offline
Points: 218
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Posted: September 29 2005 at 12:46 |
Andrea Cortese wrote:
The first album I've bought with my first pay!
GREAT! |
Hi Andrea, the story about your first pay is really touching... hope you now spend your next pays with real prog albums!!!!
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Lindsay Lohan
Forum Senior Member
Joined: May 25 2005
Location: Norway
Status: Offline
Points: 3254
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Posted: September 29 2005 at 13:07 |
MikeEnRegalia wrote:
maidenrulez wrote:
Why does you only concider seventh son of a seventh son to be progressive? Is it suddenly more progressive because it is a concept album?
Anyways i would have no problem naming atleast 50 maiden songs wich could fit the term progressive.
Infact if you take forexample the excellent In absentia release from porcupine tree...is it prog..NO...is it prog related...yes but it is still listen under prog...so there are really alot of artists on this page wich can be concidered prog although their arrangements are alot simpler than maidens...and the ones naming red hot chili peppers and megadeth ...they are out of their minds...anyway BRAVE NEW WORLD is the best and perhaps most progressive maiden album and i dont think any of the other artist mentioned can top that in the terms of progressiveness
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Porcupine Tree - In Absentia is 100% prog.
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i have to admit the first time i heard porcupine tree i thought they where some kind of intelligent pop band with songs like sound of muzak,even less and shes moving on, trains, collapse the light into earth,hearattack in a layby and blackest eyes is not the least proggy...and certainly porcupine tree concentrate on making these simple songs
Edited by maidenrulez
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Lindsay Lohan
Forum Senior Member
Joined: May 25 2005
Location: Norway
Status: Offline
Points: 3254
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Posted: September 29 2005 at 13:15 |
And take Opeth's ghost reveries: A metal album wich has longer songs wich changes from hard metal riffs and soft accoustic stuff in 90% of the album...if you compare this album to brave new world i think you will find that the maiden songs are just as complicated and in some cases even more complex than the Opeth songs. Infact Opeth's epics on that cd is pretty boring as all has Heavy intros with a accoustic/soft part in the middle just to return to the heavy parts again and then end...and the rest 3 songs is simple ballady songs
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Andrea Cortese
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: September 05 2005
Status: Offline
Points: 4411
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Posted: September 29 2005 at 13:18 |
magog wrote:
Andrea Cortese wrote:
The first album I've bought with my first pay!
GREAT!
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Hi Andrea, the story about your first pay is really touching... hope you now spend your next pays with real prog albums!!!!
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C'mon Magog, it was 1993!
BTW I've always loved them!
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Lindsay Lohan
Forum Senior Member
Joined: May 25 2005
Location: Norway
Status: Offline
Points: 3254
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Posted: September 29 2005 at 13:22 |
Andrea Cortese wrote:
magog wrote:
Andrea Cortese wrote:
The first album I've bought with my first pay!
GREAT!
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Hi Andrea, the story about your first pay is really touching... hope you now spend your next pays with real prog albums!!!!
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C'mon Magog, it was 1993!
BTW I've always loved them!
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that is a CRAP live album...the only live ye need is rock in rio and have ye heard BRAVE NEW WORLD?...masterpiece...beats the crap out of any prog metal album ever released
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Space Dimentia
Forum Senior Member
Joined: August 25 2005
Location: England
Status: Offline
Points: 440
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Posted: September 29 2005 at 14:03 |
I believe they are prog related the mighty maiden more so over 'tallica. You see Steve Harris (the bassist in case there's anyone who don't know) was a prog freak and loved Jethro Tull so when he started Maiden back in 75 or summin that naturally came out with in the music thus shifting the whole idea of prog-rock whilst you must remeber at the time you also had punk which supposidly "killed prog" (which it didn't prog just wasn't mainstram anymore so went underground.. but thats for another day) so thus it went underground and found new forms, one of these was Maiden and from this Maiden changed how rock and metal should be written, in that music is like a big, blank canvas waiting for a masterpiece to be formed on it. This in turn influencing many others such as 'tallica who cmae to view a similar view espcially during Masters of puppets, with the album itself having many proggy influences in there. So there they are both important and both are prog related, you could even say that Maiden created Prog-metal.
Music Historian LOL
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Prog is music for the mind
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