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Topic ClosedMetallica and Iron Maiden in ProgRelated?

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Ty1020 View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 28 2005 at 21:43
Dragonforce is speed metal... I wouldn't put them on this site, but they're an amazing band.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 28 2005 at 22:01
I kinda like the idea of Maiden and Priest being added to the site under a prog related category. Maiden and Priest both have admitted to being heavily influenced by Uriah Heep. And on Priest's earlier stuff, especially Sad Wings of Destiny, there's kind of a concept going on and also stuff like the track "Prelude" which led into Tyrant which was exactly the kind of thing prog bands were doing. Aside from that they had a big harmony guitar sound similar to Queen, which are apparently considered prog. "Two Minutes To Midnight" is like a metal orchestra and Maiden's first two albums remind me of Deep Purple and Uriah Heep a lot. But on the other hand, although i do like all the bands mentioned so far, I don't know if i would consider any of them to be honest prog except maybe Heep. But anyway I could live with it. Don't know about Metallica though.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 29 2005 at 01:51

Originally posted by FishyMonkey FishyMonkey wrote:

Sorry, but I think Tool gets a little too much credit for being a little more than typical. They aren't bad, definitely not, but when people orgasm over their music because they are slightly complex and interesting, it annoys me.

Sorry, I think they're much more than that. Lateralus is a very sophisticated piece ofo music. It's subjective ... you can neither prove or disprove it.

Originally posted by FishyMonkey FishyMonkey wrote:

They belong in prog-related, which is where I think Iron Maiden and Metallica should be. Iron Maiden because they didn't really do anything prog related on purpose, they just stuck to their genre, which was straight heavy metal.

Agreed on Iron Maiden.

Originally posted by FishyMonkey FishyMonkey wrote:

Heavy metal can include keyboards and longish songs. Metallica was just thrash. Dragonforce does thrashy stuff with long suns and keyboards, but we don't have them here because they were simply thrash. Thrash is known to incorporate some keyboards looking back.

This part doesn't make sense to me. Let's just skip it ...

Originally posted by FishyMonkey FishyMonkey wrote:

Now once again, Death is prog because they completely defied the genre they created and had a VERY original sound by TSOP. The ywere prog.

NO. Being innovative (even if it leds to the creation of a new genre) doesn't necessarily make something Prog. Death's newer album are prog because they are complex, sophisticated AND stepping beyond their "base" genre by adding other influences.

Originally posted by FishyMonkey FishyMonkey wrote:

Tool and Iron Maiden and Metallica, while all pretty good bands, are not prog...just cause we like them doesn't make them prog. They all seem prog-related to me.

Too bad that you can'T see the difference between Tool and Metallica. It's pretty obvious.

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 29 2005 at 02:29

Why does you only concider seventh son of a seventh son to be progressive? Is it suddenly more progressive because it is a concept album?

Anyways i would have no problem naming atleast 50 maiden songs wich could fit the term progressive.

Infact if you take forexample the excellent In absentia release from porcupine tree...is it prog..NO...is it prog related...yes but it is still listen under prog...so there are really alot of artists on this page wich can be concidered prog although their arrangements are alot simpler than maidens...and the ones naming red hot chili peppers and megadeth ...they are out of their minds...anyway BRAVE NEW WORLD is the best and perhaps most progressive maiden album and i dont think any of the other artist mentioned can top that in the terms of progressiveness

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 29 2005 at 07:20
Originally posted by Don Quito Don Quito wrote:

Iron Maiden has a lot of influence from Deep Purple, Yes, Wishbone Ash and Black Sabbath. In fact, their album Seventh Son of a Seventh Son is considered as a concept album featuring a story of a mythical child who possessed clairvoyant powers based on the book Seventh Son by Orson Scott Card.

Are you sure about that?  I don't see any connection between the Maiden album and Card's series, other than the concept of the seventh son of a seventh son, which is an idea that has been around a lot longer than either two.

 

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 29 2005 at 07:26

everyone is progrelated okkay

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 29 2005 at 07:41
Originally posted by maidenrulez maidenrulez wrote:

Why does you only concider seventh son of a seventh son to be progressive? Is it suddenly more progressive because it is a concept album?

Anyways i would have no problem naming atleast 50 maiden songs wich could fit the term progressive.

Infact if you take forexample the excellent In absentia release from porcupine tree...is it prog..NO...is it prog related...yes but it is still listen under prog...so there are really alot of artists on this page wich can be concidered prog although their arrangements are alot simpler than maidens...and the ones naming red hot chili peppers and megadeth ...they are out of their minds...anyway BRAVE NEW WORLD is the best and perhaps most progressive maiden album and i dont think any of the other artist mentioned can top that in the terms of progressiveness

 Porcupine Tree - In Absentia is 100% prog.

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 29 2005 at 07:47
Originally posted by MikeEnRegalia MikeEnRegalia wrote:

Having said that, the song might be called Proto-Prog, but not the entire album Powerslave - the better part of it is good "true" Power Metal.

Well, it contains long and complex songs nevertheless.
As well as Piece of Mind and Somewhere in time, other two that I would insert in the list of prog would-be.

Originally posted by MikeEnRegalia MikeEnRegalia wrote:

on Ride the Lightning they started to experiment with interludes, sophisticated solos and strange harmonies. Master of Puppets is THE Proto-ProgMetal album.

I agree
A flower?

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 29 2005 at 10:26
Yes is more prog than both Maiden and Metallica
Listen to Turkish psych/prog; you won't regret:
Baris Manco,Erkin Koray,Cem Karaca,Mogollar,3 Hürel,Selda,Edip Akbayram,Fikret Kizilok,Ersen (and Dadaslar) (but stick with the '70's, and 'early 80's!)
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 29 2005 at 11:43

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

The first album I've bought with my first pay!

GREAT!

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 29 2005 at 12:21
Originally posted by R_DeNIRO R_DeNIRO wrote:

I think Metallica and Iron Maiden's early period (1983-1989 in case of Metallica; 1980-1988 in case of Maiden) have to be included in the prog-related subgenre.

Thoughts?

I have to admit, I misread this before I replied. I thought it read that Maiden and Metallica have been included!

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 29 2005 at 12:24
This is a joke, right? Please tell met it is

NO Metallica and Iron Maiden never were and probably never be prog realted! Stop this nonsence! Iron Maiden is the founder of NWOBHM, thats New Wave Of British HEAVY METAL! Heavy metal not prog metal, not prog realted heavy metal, not even wery-close-but-not-exactly-prog-related-heavy-metal

Pure heavy metal- you know heavy metal- hard rock but faster and heavier! Nothing to do with prog.

The same with Metallica.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 29 2005 at 12:36
Sure, why not!!?? Then rename the site to MetalArchives and that's it - and I am out of here... for good...



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Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 29 2005 at 12:41
I think real prog died in the end of the 70's with last valuable albums from prog-bands of early 70's,
(Songs from the wood, Breathless,Quite zone-Pleasure dome); I generally don't trust in 80's prog (with some exception) and of corse metal is metal for my idea of prog.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 29 2005 at 12:46
Originally posted by Andrea Cortese Andrea Cortese wrote:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

The first album I've bought with my first pay!

GREAT!


Hi Andrea, the story about your first pay is really touching... hope you now spend your next pays with real prog albums!!!!
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 29 2005 at 13:07
Originally posted by MikeEnRegalia MikeEnRegalia wrote:

Originally posted by maidenrulez maidenrulez wrote:

Why does you only concider seventh son of a seventh son to be progressive? Is it suddenly more progressive because it is a concept album?

Anyways i would have no problem naming atleast 50 maiden songs wich could fit the term progressive.

Infact if you take forexample the excellent In absentia release from porcupine tree...is it prog..NO...is it prog related...yes but it is still listen under prog...so there are really alot of artists on this page wich can be concidered prog although their arrangements are alot simpler than maidens...and the ones naming red hot chili peppers and megadeth ...they are out of their minds...anyway BRAVE NEW WORLD is the best and perhaps most progressive maiden album and i dont think any of the other artist mentioned can top that in the terms of progressiveness

 Porcupine Tree - In Absentia is 100% prog.

i have to admit the first time i heard porcupine tree i thought they where some kind of intelligent pop band with songs like sound of muzak,even less and shes moving on, trains, collapse the light into earth,hearattack in a layby and blackest eyes is not the least proggy...and certainly porcupine tree concentrate on making these simple songs



Edited by maidenrulez
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 29 2005 at 13:15
And take Opeth's ghost reveries: A metal album wich has longer songs wich changes from hard metal riffs and soft accoustic stuff in 90% of the album...if you compare this album to brave new world i think you will find that the maiden songs are just as complicated and in some cases even more complex than the Opeth songs. Infact Opeth's epics on that cd is pretty boring as all has Heavy intros with a accoustic/soft part in the middle just to return to the heavy parts again and then end...and the rest 3 songs is simple ballady songs
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 29 2005 at 13:18
Originally posted by magog magog wrote:

Originally posted by Andrea Cortese Andrea Cortese wrote:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

The first album I've bought with my first pay!

GREAT!


Hi Andrea, the story about your first pay is really touching... hope you now spend your next pays with real prog albums!!!!

C'mon Magog, it was 1993!

BTW I've always loved them!

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 29 2005 at 13:22
Originally posted by Andrea Cortese Andrea Cortese wrote:

Originally posted by magog magog wrote:

Originally posted by Andrea Cortese Andrea Cortese wrote:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

The first album I've bought with my first pay!

GREAT!


Hi Andrea, the story about your first pay is really touching... hope you now spend your next pays with real prog albums!!!!

C'mon Magog, it was 1993!

BTW I've always loved them!

that is a CRAP live album...the only live ye need is rock in rio and have ye heard BRAVE NEW WORLD?...masterpiece...beats the crap out of any prog metal album ever released

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 29 2005 at 14:03

 I believe they are prog related the mighty maiden more so over 'tallica. You see Steve Harris (the bassist in case there's anyone who don't know) was a prog freak and loved Jethro Tull so when he started Maiden back in 75 or summin that naturally came out with in the music thus shifting the whole idea of prog-rock whilst you must remeber at the time you also had punk which supposidly "killed prog" (which it didn't prog just wasn't mainstram anymore so went underground.. but thats for another day) so thus it went underground and found new forms, one of these was Maiden and from this Maiden changed how rock and metal should be written, in that music is like a big, blank canvas waiting for a masterpiece to be formed on it. This in turn influencing many others such as 'tallica who cmae to view a similar view espcially during Masters of puppets, with the album itself having many proggy influences in there. So there they are both important and both are prog related, you could even say that Maiden created Prog-metal.

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