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MikeEnRegalia
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: April 22 2005
Location: Sweden
Status: Offline
Points: 21206
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Posted: September 13 2005 at 03:50 |
TheProgtologist wrote:
Squifurgie wrote:
but Zeppelin's later stuff is definetely progressive, like No Quarter and Achilles Last Stand, even Stairway is progressive.
they should be in the archives.
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So....a band that made,according to you,3 progressive songs out of 8 studio albums deserves inclusion on a progressive rock website?
BS
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Actually I always thought about Led Zeppelin as a progressive band, at least in the early 90's when I first got into Dream Theater and didn't know about the 70's prog bands except Pink Floyd.
I listened to Dream Theater and thought "very nice - they're taking the signature changes and weird song structure concepts of Led Zeppelin one step further".
Surely I lacked context back then, but there's a progressive element in Led Zep that Deep Purple are missing, so they're definitively PROG RELATED.
And let us not forget Mike Portnoy's secret Project "Hammer" (or something like that) who play Led Zeppelin songs just like Yellow Matter Custard play Beatles songs.
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Damen
Forum Senior Member
Joined: August 04 2005
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 1068
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Posted: September 12 2005 at 23:26 |
Kubla Khan wrote:
snow dog :
the first albums of rush sound like zeppelin.... |
Then they got Neil Peart and took a complete 180, their first album wasn't prog.
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"It's amazing that we've been able to put up with each other for 35 years. Most marriages don't last that long these days."
-Chris Squire
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TheProgtologist
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator / Retired Admin
Joined: May 23 2005
Location: Baltimore,Md US
Status: Offline
Points: 27802
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Posted: September 12 2005 at 21:55 |
Squifurgie wrote:
but Zeppelin's later stuff is definetely progressive, like No Quarter and Achilles Last Stand, even Stairway is progressive.
they should be in the archives.
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So....a band that made,according to you,3 progressive songs out of 8 studio albums deserves inclusion on a progressive rock website?
BS
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Kubla Khan
Forum Groupie
Joined: May 29 2005
Location: Chile
Status: Offline
Points: 75
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Posted: September 12 2005 at 21:48 |
snow dog :
the first albums of rush sound like zeppelin....
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Snow Dog
Special Collaborator
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Joined: March 23 2005
Location: Caerdydd
Status: Offline
Points: 32995
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Posted: September 12 2005 at 18:38 |
Kubla Khan wrote:
erik neuteboom wrote:
Hello Tony.
Were is that R from, perhaps reverend? I won't be surprised if I look at your weird comparison with murder and my explanation about the addition of Led Zeppelin...I think we have a "communication breakdown"?!
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HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!
WHITOUT `ZEPPELIN MANY OF OUR BELOVED PROG BANDS MAY NEVER HAVE BORN.
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I'm trying to think of a prog band that wouldn't exist without Zep!............................
.............no, I can't think of any!..................Rush maybe?.........Nah!
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Tony R
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator / Retired Admin
Joined: July 16 2004
Location: UK
Status: Offline
Points: 11979
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Posted: September 12 2005 at 18:22 |
erik neuteboom wrote:
Hello Tony.
Were is that R from, perhaps reverend? I won't be surprised if I look at your weird comparison with murder and my explanation about the addition of Led Zeppelin...I think we have a "communication breakdown"?!
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I was comparing the proposed addition of Led Zep to that of Queen;
"Two wrongs dont make a right" etc,
It was wrong to add Queen and it would be equally wrong to add Zep.
You can mock my laboured metaphor all you want but you are equally foolish if you think Led Zep are a prog band.
And no,I dont even believe it is OK to suggest them,just to "test the water"
Enough of this buffonery.
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Kubla Khan
Forum Groupie
Joined: May 29 2005
Location: Chile
Status: Offline
Points: 75
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Posted: September 12 2005 at 15:37 |
erik neuteboom wrote:
Hello Tony.
Were is that R from, perhaps reverend? I won't be surprised if I
look at your weird comparison with murder and my explanation about the
addition of Led Zeppelin...I think we have a "communication breakdown"?! |
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!
WHITOUT `ZEPPELIN MANY OF OUR BELOVED PROG BANDS MAY NEVER HAVE BORN.
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MikeEnRegalia
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: April 22 2005
Location: Sweden
Status: Offline
Points: 21206
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Posted: September 12 2005 at 14:37 |
boo boo wrote:
MikeEnRegalia wrote:
We might introduce a special category for bands that are "almost" prog .
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How about progressive hard rock?, it's a term i have seen prog fans use before so bands like Led Zeppelin wouldnt be put into the same category as "really prog" bands like ELP and Gentle Giant, it could be used for bands like Led Zeppelin, Deep Purple, Black Sabbath, David Bowie, The Doors, Jimi Hendrix and The Who, all artists with progressive elements but don't really fall under any other prog catagory, think about it, what other classification could Zeppelin fall under?, Symphonic Prog?
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I'd say Art Rock ... or rather "Almost Art Rock".
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erik neuteboom
Prog Reviewer
Joined: July 27 2005
Location: Netherlands
Status: Offline
Points: 7659
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Posted: September 12 2005 at 13:48 |
Hello Tony.
Were is that R from, perhaps reverend? I won't be surprised if I look at your weird comparison with murder and my explanation about the addition of Led Zeppelin...I think we have a "communication breakdown"?!
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boo boo
Forum Senior Member
Joined: June 28 2005
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 905
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Posted: September 12 2005 at 13:06 |
MikeEnRegalia wrote:
We might introduce a special category for bands that are "almost" prog .
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How about progressive hard rock?, it's a term i have seen prog fans use before so bands like Led Zeppelin wouldnt be put into the same category as "really prog" bands like ELP and Gentle Giant, it could be used for bands like Led Zeppelin, Deep Purple, Black Sabbath, David Bowie, The Doors, Jimi Hendrix and The Who, all artists with progressive elements but don't really fall under any other prog catagory, think about it, what other classification could Zeppelin fall under?, Symphonic Prog?
Edited by boo boo
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Tony R
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator / Retired Admin
Joined: July 16 2004
Location: UK
Status: Offline
Points: 11979
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Posted: September 12 2005 at 07:30 |
erik neuteboom wrote:
I would never have battled for Led Zeppelin to add them on this site but Prog Archives have scooped a precedent by adding bands like Queen, Radiohead, Talk Talk, etc. so I support to add Led Zeppelin to this site because of their progressive periode in the Seventies. Of course a band is not progressive because of only lush instrumentation or/and the use of vintage keyboards but in my opinion Led Zeppelin have written some excellent progrock compositions, then my simple question is: why Queen or Radiohead and not Led Zeppelin? |
That is like asking a judge why he has sent you down for twenty years for murder when the last murderer only got 16 years!
Queen are not a Prog Rock band and neither are Zep or Purple.
Whilst I cant stand them myself,I would say that Radiohead are very much a Prog Rock band.
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erik neuteboom
Prog Reviewer
Joined: July 27 2005
Location: Netherlands
Status: Offline
Points: 7659
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Posted: September 12 2005 at 07:12 |
I would never have battled for Led Zeppelin to add them on this site but Prog Archives have scooped a precedent by adding bands like Queen, Radiohead, Talk Talk, etc. so I support to add Led Zeppelin to this site because of their progressive periode in the Seventies. Of course a band is not progressive because of only lush instrumentation or/and the use of vintage keyboards but in my opinion Led Zeppelin have written some excellent progrock compositions, then my simple question is: why Queen or Radiohead and not Led Zeppelin?
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MikeEnRegalia
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: April 22 2005
Location: Sweden
Status: Offline
Points: 21206
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Posted: September 12 2005 at 06:50 |
Snow Dog wrote:
Is this the right room for an argument? |
No, this is the right room for an ARGUMENT.
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Proglover
Forum Senior Member
Joined: June 09 2005
Status: Offline
Points: 416
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Posted: September 11 2005 at 10:18 |
dmille wrote:
Proglover wrote:
Ummm.....actually, Led Zeppelin was more of a heavy BLUES BAND |
I guess it is easy to just re-write history and make up a genre.
Proglover wrote:
....and Queen certainly fit into more categories than just GLAM ROCK. In fact to my understanding glam rock was a term used to describe the flash, and flamboyant way bands presented themselves on stage. The term had little to do with the style of music. What other glam rock band do you you know that played vaudeville music and combined classical elements to rock? I certainly can't think of any...........So before we DROP IT, as you suggest, perhaps you should get your facts straight. |
You can't think of any because you don't know the full scope of the careers of Roxy Music and David Bowie.
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Whose re-writing history????????????? Led Zeppelin was basically a BLUES band....and with all due respect to Roxy Music and David Bowie...they WERE NOT QUEEN.
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Snow Dog
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: March 23 2005
Location: Caerdydd
Status: Offline
Points: 32995
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Posted: September 11 2005 at 05:07 |
Is this the right room for an argument?
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Tony R
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator / Retired Admin
Joined: July 16 2004
Location: UK
Status: Offline
Points: 11979
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Posted: September 11 2005 at 04:59 |
erik neuteboom wrote:
I have grown up (both physically as emotionally), I have seen them live in 1979 in Holland ("In through the outdoor" tour) and I don't understand why progheads oppose so cynically against an addition from Led Zeppelin to this site. For me it's almost more than obvious that they were a genuine progressive rock act! I would like to advise every 'stop-Led-Zep-to-PA-site' member to watch the superb second disc from the 2-disc live box set, what a stunning progressive rock act Led Zeppelin was in those days: Mellotron, Hohner D-6 clavinet, Fender Rhodes piano, Yamaha GX-1 synthesizer, lots of acoustic snare instruments, Gibson twin-neck, what a lush instrumentation! |
Erik,I dont want to get into a battle with you but I would say that Led Zep have been one of my top 5 favourite bands since I was a young teenager.I have the albums,the DVDs,the interviews,the lot.I have been listening to them since I was 11 year old and I feel I am pretty knowledgeable about them.In fact I would put my encyclopedic knowledge of the band up a against anyone. Lush instrumentation and a few high-profile "prog-type" keyboards does not a prog band make.They are virtually peerless in the annals of rock music and their legacy will be seen for decades to come-but they are not a prog-rock band.They are a blues-rock band and a bloody brilliant one at that.
I need an emoticon thet says "shakes his head in disbelief"....
Edited by Tony R
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MikeEnRegalia
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: April 22 2005
Location: Sweden
Status: Offline
Points: 21206
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Posted: September 10 2005 at 18:01 |
Apparently those who opose them are more interested in their historic importance and how they were described by the press, than in the actual music they played. If you really analyze songs like The Crunge, No Quarter, The Ocean etc., you'll find many of the typical progressive elements.
Edited by MikeEnRegalia
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erik neuteboom
Prog Reviewer
Joined: July 27 2005
Location: Netherlands
Status: Offline
Points: 7659
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Posted: September 10 2005 at 17:35 |
I have grown up (both physically as emotionally), I have seen them live in 1979 in Holland ("In through the outdoor" tour) and I don't understand why progheads oppose so cynically against an addition from Led Zeppelin to this site. For me it's almost more than obvious that they were a genuine progressive rock act! I would like to advise every 'stop-Led-Zep-to-PA-site' member to watch the superb second disc from the 2-disc live box set, what a stunning progressive rock act Led Zeppelin was in those days: Mellotron, Hohner D-6 clavinet, Fender Rhodes piano, Yamaha GX-1 synthesizer, lots of acoustic snare instruments, Gibson twin-neck, what a lush instrumentation!
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Tony R
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator / Retired Admin
Joined: July 16 2004
Location: UK
Status: Offline
Points: 11979
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Posted: September 10 2005 at 16:28 |
Maybe electric shock treatment would help?
The trouble is we live in a time when people feel that whatever they want they should have.
Like Peter,I am a big Led Zep fan(atic) -I was even lucky enough to see
them play live,but for chrissakes,they are not a Prog Rock band.
Some people around here need to grow up.
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Peter
Special Collaborator
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Joined: January 31 2004
Location: Canada
Status: Offline
Points: 9669
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Posted: September 10 2005 at 16:11 |
Just listened to lots of Zep -- I heard a classic hard rock band, not a prog band. (Though perhaps 3-4 of their tracks could fit in OK on a prog compilation.)
I vote no! Leave classic rock OUT of the Archives! (Queen don't belong here, either.)
When Zep were recording, they were never regarded as a prog band -- why do some think they are now? Must everything you like be added here? Why, for goodness sake?
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"And, has thou slain the Jabberwock? Come to my arms, my beamish boy! O frabjous day! Callooh! Callay!' He chortled in his joy.
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