Digital Audio Myths - Listening on a PC

No, things are not that simple
Have you heard about “Jitter” phenomenon?
Here are some text extracts i found on the net:

About VRDS system:

“TEAC manufactures what is felt by many to be the finest CD transport mechanism available. Their massive VRDS drive uses a proprietary clamping system that corrects for disc warp while reducing jitter-inducing vibration. The incredibly tight manufacturing tolerances of the mechanism are said to be an order of magnitude beyond any drive used for audio applications.”

About spectral drive, using modified Teac VRDS mechanic:

« The vital role a transport plays cannot be overstated. All subsequent signal processing and amplification quality will be determined by the ultimate ability of the transport to recover the correct data from the disc, and deliver it without errors in timing. This is a major engineering challenge. Until now, data losses and introduction of timing errors (jitter) have plagued virtually all digital playback systems. The Spectral SDR-3000 Reference Transport is a quantum step forward in precision and quality, virtually eliminating jitter and resolution losses.

A REFERENCE CD DRIVE
One conspicuous area of compromise among high-end audio CD transports is the choice of the compact disc drive itself. Most high-end transports rely on standard CD drives developed for mass-market automobile and CD ROM applications. Although inexpensive, these drives were never designed for the performance and durability requirements of truly high-end audio. Plastic construction and optics are an undeniable compromise in today's finest compact disc components.
Spectral engineers evaluated many premium drives and found virtually all to be compromised by the imperatives of mid-fi cost constraints. A cooperative effort between TEAC and Spectral has resulted in a custom version of their finest hand built Esoteric drive, made exclusively for the SDR-3000.
Unlike most available CD drives, the Spectral/Esoteric drive is developed exclusively for high-end audio applications. Based on the low production Esoteric P2s drive, the Spectral/Esoteric reflects a marriage of state-of-the-art mechanical and opto-electrical performance. Vibration-Free Rigid Disc Clamping (VRDS) allows the convenience of front disc loading without the attendant performance compromise. (Most other front loading drives use magnetic disc clamping, and the magnetic puck seldom centers itself exactly, inducing mechanical vibration). The VRDS clamping system offers full vibration damping of the sensitive compact disc while eliminating the inconvenience of additional disc weights and stabilizers commonly required with top-loading transports.
The VRDS system is a new generation design built to exacting standards for Spectral. No other drive that we have evaluated offers the data precision and mechanical quality achieved here. Superiority of the Spectral/Esoteric drive starts with its full size die-cast zinc/bronze disc turntable and stabilizer clamp which keeps disc and laser pickup in their precise relative positions. Servo correction need only deal with tracking the variable disc rotation speed because of the superb inertial damping and stability of the turntable which employs a double-layer construction of machined brass and aluminum. The overhead turntable's heavy design and high precision clamp greatly reduce undesirable vibration while its massive bearing and 6 mm spindle ensure excellent rotational stability and long life.
The superstructure of the drive is cast from non-resonant zinc-alloy including a massive 1 Kg base unit and vibration resistant bridge assembly for the precision motor and bearing of the disc turntable. A floating suspension system with sophisticated resonance damping completes the state-of-the-art mechanicals.
The disc loading system also sets high standards for precision and durability. Its non-resonant loader tray rides on twin polished stainless steel linear bearing rods for positive disc control and long life. This polished bearing loading mechanism is distinctly superior to the weak plastic bearings found in conventional CD drives.
BALANCED CHASSIS DESIGN
Massive construction alone does not address the multiple dimensions of resonance and vibration management required in a digital transport. The enclosure design of the SDR-3000 is an essential element of distortion control, and, as a result, signal integrity.
Multiple shield construction compartmentalizes sensitive transport sections and limits noise coupling. Mechanical and harmonic disturbance is eliminated through a critical series of laminated sections and damping elements. Radius corner, welded aluminum chassis design detunes resonant frequencies which can impact clocking and program signals. The essential requirements for chassis rigidity and optimum vibration control are carefully balanced in the SDR-3000.”


You can also have a look at this page:

http://www.teac.com/esoteric/NewEsoteric/UX-1.html

Yes, but software don't suffer from "jitter" problems.

oliverstoned wrote: Yes, but software don't suffer from "jitter" problems.

You don'T know what you're talking about. In order to understand it you'd have to get a bit more technical.

BTW: CDex detects jitter and automatically corrects it. And no, it doesn't change anything in the signal. It just reads those passages again until they add up.

One of the articles I posted in the other thread explains it in more detail - basically, jitter is a real time problem. If you were using the CD drive in the computer to just play back the audio (some old drives have headphone jacks), the drives would indeed suffer from jitter. But that has nothing to do with digitally extracted data. In that case jitter can only be introduced during D/A conversion, and in this domain the Creative X-Fi card is very good ... 110ppm, or whatever unit it was.

"I'm getting tired ... EVERYBODY can verify what I say, nobody can verify your theory. Even you yourself can't verify it, because you won't install CDex and test it."

That's the same for me. I can prove you by listening what i said. These are not theories, but reality.
Like when you first pretend that tubes amps were not accurate, you eventually admited that there are more than transistor ones; (at least you are not of bad faith)it's the difference between a theory and a fact. Sometimes theories don't match with the results (and only result matters). Of course there's an explanation, and in the case of the issue we are discussing, i will soon provide you new elements.

What i'm sure is that vibrations affect digital reading somehow, another concrete example is you get a huge improvment when you put your integrated cd player or drive perfectly horizontal in the two dimensions(exactly the same than for turntables), you have a dramatic improvment in terms of dynamic, low, image, softness...
cause if the turning machine is not perfectly horizontal, it generates vib' that affects somehow reading...

...you can come to listen and i'll prove you all i said.
You can bring Cds as long as there are originals and no "prog"-metal please.

Thanks Oliver, who's supplying the beer

oliverstoned wrote: "I'm getting tired ... EVERYBODY can verify what I say, nobody can verify your theory. Even you yourself can't verify it, because you won't install CDex and test it." That's the same for me. I can prove you by listening what i said. These are not theories, but reality. Like when you first pretend that tubes amps were not accurate, you eventually admited that there are more than transistor ones; (at least you are not of bad faith)it's the difference between a theory and a fact. Sometimes theories don't match with the results (and only result matters). Of course there's an explanation, and in the case of the issue we are discussing, i will soon provide you new elements.

Hold on a second ... tube amps are not linear. They ARE more accurate than transistor amps in the higher frequencies, in that they have a higher resolution. But they change the character of the signal more than transistor amps do. I'm not at all saying that this is a bad thing.

oliverstoned wrote: What i'm sure is that vibrations affect digital reading somehow, another concrete example is you get a huge improvment when you put your integrated cd player or drive perfectly horizontal in the two dimensions(exactly the same than for turntables), you have a dramatic improvment in terms of dynamic, low, image, softness...

Not true. I tried that and noticed no difference. And you're being foolish again, likening analog turntables to digital discs.

oliverstoned wrote: cause if the turning machine is not perfectly horizontal, it generates vib' that affects somehow reading...

I know exactly what happens. During my time at the university I learned a lot about digital devices. Why can't you admit that you're not an expert?

oliverstoned wrote: ...you can come to listen and i'll prove you all i said. You can bring Cds as long as there are originals and no "prog"-metal please.

 I appreciate the offer, but it doesn't work that way. I offered everyone a way to verify my words at home, without even using a subjective impression but rather hard evidence. All you're saying is "trust me, you're wrong" and invite me to travel hundreds of kilometers - and I'm not even allowed to bring the "items in question"? How can I prove my theory if you don't allow me to bring the items we are talking about here?

MikeEnRegalia wrote: oliverstoned wrote: ...you can come to listen and i'll prove you all i said. You can bring Cds as long as there are originals and no "prog"-metal please.  I appreciate the offer, but it doesn't work that way. I offered everyone a way to verify my words at home, without even using a subjective impression but rather hard evidence. All you're saying is "trust me, you're wrong" and invite me to travel hundreds of kilometers - and I'm not even allowed to bring the "items in question"? How can I prove my theory if you don't allow me to bring the items we are talking about here?

Of course you can bring whatever cd you want to test.
This was a joke.
But if you come to Paris for other reason one time, you can come home and i will prove you by FACT all i said.
This will disturb your theories, which are only true...in theory!

oliverstoned wrote: Of course you can bring whatever cd you want to test. This was a joke. But if you come to Paris for other reason one time, you can come home and i will prove you by FACT all i said. This will disturb your theories, which are only true...in theory!

This appears to be a hopeless case ... by now I've explained in detail repeatedly that this theory of mine can be proven by everyone, without leaving the shadow of a doubt.