Yes and Genesis: similar, or, not so?

70's critics were dummies. It's clear that both Genesis and Yes are a completely different beast. And both bands are great in their own way.

Genesis used tambourine during chorus's; Yes hardly ever.

Funniest criterion for judging bands EVER.

Duncan wrote: Genesis used tambourine during chorus's; Yes hardly ever. Funniest criterion for judging bands EVER.

That's funny cause Jon Anderson uses tambourines all the time.....atleast when I've seen them perform live.

Mategra wrote: GENESIS always had humour while YES' music lacks humour. GENESIS have more memorable melodies and meaningful lyrics. YES' emphasis and strength seems to be the technical prowess. GENESIS would be totally unthinkable (to me at least) without Tony Banks. Any member of YES is replaceable (perhaps not Chris Squire).

I think everything that you said is questionable and indeed debatable......it's obvious you like Genesis more.....but those statements are based on nothing but pure opinion...which is absolutely fine. Yet you state them as if they are facts. I for example COMPLETELY disagree that Genesis has more memorable melodies and meaningful lyrics....I don't know how anyone could make a statement like that and put it up to the light as truth.

....and as far as bands not being able to carry on without a particular band member....well that's really all hypothetical thinking is it not.......because we have never seen Genesis without Tony Banks, we have never seen YES without Chris Squire. I personally think both bands could go on regardless who ever they lost at a particular time.

Gianthogweed wrote: Yes - bright and happy most of the time. Genesis - Dark and twisted most of the time.

Relayer...atleast the first two tracks are surprisingly dark for YES....I think the word happy is too shallow of a word. It doesn't convey much. I wouldn't call YES music bright.

Mik the Prik wrote: And who the **** said Genesis don't use moogs?? What about their best pieces on Selling England and Lamb Lies Down?? Cinema Show, I know what I like, Battle Of Epping Forest, Slippermen, Firth Of Fifth, Riding The Scree, and, last but not least, In the Cage with a beautiful baroque theme on minimoog and many others! The typical Banks combo in the "mature" Genesis (from Selling to And Wind and Wuthering) was a mellotron and a Hammond, altogether with a piano (all like in the early years) and a moog to play solos!!! Banks' moogs is one of the few things for which I like Genesis!!!

Whoever said Genesis don't use Moogs was right.  Tony uses ARPs. 

maani wrote: Proglover: "We have never seen YES without Chris Squire."  Ever heard of "Anderson, Bruford, Wakeman, Howe?" Re Tales vs The Lamb, it's time that we disagreed again...  "Tales" sux!   Well, okay, its' merely weak.  It was created under the almost unilateral control by Jon Anderson, with little input from any of the other members - and caused Wakeman to leave the band.  It is lyrically "wanting," and the music ranges from a few truly orgasmic highs to near-abysmal. The Lamb, on the other hand, is a work of pure genius, brilliant in every way, with all of the members at the peak of their musical and creative powers. Sorry, Charlie, but only good tunas get to be star-kissed... Peace.

HAHAHHAHA...awww I've missed you maani.......but yes you are absolutely right...it is once again time for us to disagree. First off Tales is a masterpiece and reaches heights that Genesis never touched. I've said it before...the greatness of YES is their ability to think larger than life. YES stared in the face of of the gods on Mount Olympus. Genesis never accomplished such a feat. Their musical mindset was completely different, and their is nothing wrong with that. I LOVE Genesis....and I indeed LOVE The Lamb.....BUT....in my opinion it IS NOT more brilliant than Tales. If I've said it once I've said it a million times.....YES should have continued writing 20 more albums like Tales. I simply do not understand how anyone could call that album weak.....it most certainly is not. It is a testament to will power and daring to be great. It is a milestone not only for prog rock but also for all of rock. It is the CLOSEST thing that prog rock gets to identifying with the classical symphony. It pays honor and is indebted to classical structure and ideal. It is an absolutely beautiful piece of music.

Once again I LOVE The Lamb....but it is certainly NOT Tales. As far as Wakeman leaving the band....although I love Wakeman I don't think his leaving was such a bad thing. Th band was moving in a specific direction and Wakeman disagreed with that. THAT'S FINE.....that's life.....things happen....he decided to leave....that was HIS problem. Quite frankly with Wakenman out of the way YES embarked on their most creative, outstanding, epic album they ever did....RELAYER.....Relayer is the epitome of YES music and in my opinion their biggest achievement. Wakeman has said many times that he also disliked Relayer....I'm personally glad he was gone. To be quite honest I would have liked to have seen YES do atleast one more album with Patrick Moraz. So lets look at the facts.....YES accomplished their most successful and most brilliant (and unfortunately most underated) work WITHOUT Wakeman. On another tip, Wakeman was suppose to take off as a HUGE solo keyboardist, and that was a dream which NEVER took off.....he did his career a favor my going back to YES.

Thirdly I don't know what the heck you are listening too.....but ALL five members on the Tales album are in top form. Steve Howe is amazing as ALWAYS...Chris Squire is amazing as ALWAYS.....Wakeman despite his lack of enthusiasm for the project I feel contributed quite nicely contrary to his own opinion that he COULD NOT contribute. Alan White for his first bang with the band, I felt added to the style of the piece, which perhaps Bruford would not have been able to as effectively.

Fourth.....In my humble opinion.....anyone who says that the music on this album lacks direction.....I fear does not understand the concept of musical structure. I wrote a whole HUGE thread praising Tales for it's solid and concrete sructure. I have never heard a band with such a high understanding of musical composition....or rather I should say form.

Personally I FIND HUGE FLAWS with The Lamb. Pure Genius???????......I think not my dear friend.

This is also a point that I brought up in the past....but if it is true that Tales was a failure (although I don't believe that it is)....BUT if it is....what is wrong with that???????.......why is failure a bad thing??????........These guys pushed the envelope....some people liked it, some people didn't.........that is in no way reflective of a failure. If anything it is the total opposite. Throughout Classical music history many great composers have experienced "failure" or rather set backs.....it's apart of life and it's nothing that should hinder you.Many works by many great composers were considered worthless at the time, but are now praised for being masterpieces, we've even seen cases of great operas or great symphonies having a horrible or failed debut, but now are cherished and a part of the repertoire.....this I feel will be the path for Tales. I'll tell you a quick story.......

I'm not sure if many of you are aware...but I am a music student majoring in composition. During my undergrad, I composed a piece on synthesizer. Which was quite a stir considering that the atmosphere was very, very classically oriented. In any event I performed the piece, and to say the least the reactions were mixed. Some people loved it, some people hated it, some people thought it was strange, some people didn't know what to make of it...the reactions ran the spectrum. Well I was a bit depressed because I thought that I had failed as a composer. I called one of my other composer friends who I highly regard...and I told him the story. And he changed my life completely with a few little words....he said......"Cory...(that's my name)............."Cory....if EVERYONE LIKED your piece then it was probably a mediocre piece.....if EVERYONE HATED your piece, then it was probably a bad piece.....but the fact that you received so many different reactions is proof, just how good your piece is. And it made sense. Then fastforward a bit, I was talking to another of my composer friends, who I also highly regard and respect.....and we were talking about Mozart...and he said..."You know Cory, Mozart stands the test of time....Mozart has passed the test. We know that Mozart is a great composer because his music causes such different reactions in so many people. Some people hate Mozart and some people love Mozart."......and I thought to myself again....wow he's absolutely right!!!

The greatness of Tales From Topographic Oceans lies in its ability to be able to bring forth so many different opinions and reactions from so many different people. The mere fact that Tales DIVIDES prog fans is a testament to its greatness and landmark quality. As far as I am concerned...put Tales alongside the Mona Lisa, and the pages of Shakespeare....TALES IS ART!!!................

And last but certainly not least.....I do not consider ABWH to be YES....

Proglover wrote: Gianthogweed wrote: Yes - bright and happy most of the time. Genesis - Dark and twisted most of the time. Relayer...atleast the first two tracks are surprisingly dark for YES....I think the word happy is too shallow of a word. It doesn't convey much. I wouldn't call YES music bright.

Well, I agree with Gianthogweed on Yes music being definitely bright, or - to say it better - luminous.
And it's also true that Relayer is gloomier than the remainder of the band's production.
But surely it doesn't seem to me that Genesis are dark (King Crimson ARE dark, for instance)

The music of the two bands is poles apart in terms of composition and obvious areas like lyrics (abstract vs meaningful?) They are united only by the fact they are both 'prog rock' but I really cant think of ANY two BIG prog bands from the 'glory days' that sounded alike.

As for Yes being a 'happy' or 'bright' band, I agree. A lot of their music has an uplifting optimism about it even if the lyrics dont always give much away. This is missing from the Genesis formula. Genesis are indeed darker in that they were more melancholy. In contrast there was always more humour in Genesis, with or without Gabriel.

Both superb bands!  

Proglover wrote: Gianthogweed wrote: Yes - bright and happy most of the time. Genesis - Dark and twisted most of the time. Relayer...atleast the first two tracks are surprisingly dark for YES....I think the word happy is too shallow of a word. It doesn't convey much. I wouldn't call YES music bright.

Joyful is the word I like for yesmusic!