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goose 
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Joined: June 20 2004
Location: United Kingdom
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Points: 4097
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 Posted: August 19 2005 at 08:09 |
 Eetu Pellonpää wrote:
You are absolutely right on this. And the thought pattern you present in the first quoted paragraph seems like a lock, which cannot be opened logically.
Though we think differently, I regard you as an intelligent and nice fellow, and I hope I didn't hurt your feelings with my furious writings.  |
No, it's great to see so many different viewpoints from people presented in different ways! The problem with my thinking is that while from a logical perspective it's technically correct, it doesn't actually mean anything (because of this "lock" which it puts around itself) and I just end up sitting on the fence in any discussions 
GPFR wrote:
Now, when people asked Thomas Jefferson why there was a god, his reply was "Opposible thumbs." What I want to know is How does that proove god and disprove darwin? I think it's the other way around.
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People have a tendency to want to believe something, I believe (  ), which means that the evidence will be fitted toward the belief or theory. Evolution needs a lot of random coincidences for us to even exist, let alone to be such complex organisms. But that comes back to what I said earlier: How long is a million years? |
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Posted: August 20 2005 at 18:43 |
Let's put this to bed, all you god believers, go and believe, the rest of us.....we'll live the real life. To Ricochet......i feel air so it exists, but god...don't make me laugh. How do you feel god? god has made many a religion rich and will continue to. Also, someone mentioned that if there is no god then there is no free will?, what drugs were you taking when u wrote that. Science is true, god has yet to be proven, the bible is a joke, a nice fairy book that keeps the christian masses happy/ignorant. Finally, as a famous comedian once said during a visit to an RC hall, he looked up and saw the crucifix, and said " is that what you do to people who break in here". Probably more true than anything so far.
Please end this thread.
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GPFR
Forum Senior Member
Joined: August 05 2005
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Points: 760
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Posted: August 20 2005 at 19:56 |
tangerine62 wrote:
i feel air so it exists, but god...don't make
me laugh. How do you feel god? god has made many a religion rich
and will continue to. |
So you beleive what you observe, eh? What about the feeling of being
stared at? We all get it, but there is no logical way for us to know we
are being stared at. Do you beleive that feeling is fake? There is no
way to observe thought, Yet you beleive in thought. I beleive that if
you beleive in thought and the sence of being stared at then you are
being a bit hypocritical.
I agree that this forum should be done with, I know it's not going to
be, however. I also think that this is pointless, even if one
out-debates the other everyone seems sure on what they beleive, and I
dont think that's going to change anytime soon.
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Tony R
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator / Retired Admin
Joined: July 16 2004
Location: UK
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Points: 11979
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Posted: August 20 2005 at 20:00 |
GPFR wrote:
tangerine62 wrote:
i feel air so it exists, but god...don't make me laugh. How do you feel god? god has made many a religion rich and will continue to.
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So you beleive what you observe, eh? What about the feeling of being stared at? We all get it, but there is no logical way for us to know we are being stared at. Do you beleive that feeling is fake?
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Instinct.
We once lived on the plains and we had hungry predators waiting to pounce on us.The smell of danger (adrenaline?),the merest glimpse of a shape,who knows? But it has remained as you have unintentionally pointed out.
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Posted: August 20 2005 at 20:14 |
GPFR what he f**k has that got to do with god.
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Snow Dog
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Posted: August 20 2005 at 20:15 |
I wish this thread would die! 
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Posted: August 20 2005 at 20:26 |
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i want it to...help..please close this thread.
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Snow Dog
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Posted: August 20 2005 at 20:45 |
tangerine62 wrote:
i want it to...help..please close this thread. |
Not within my power I'm afraid........perhaps if we all wish together!!!
On second thoughts, who enpowers the wishes?
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maani
Special Collaborator
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Joined: January 30 2004
Location: United States
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Posted: August 20 2005 at 21:24 |
Why would I want to close a perfectly enjoyable thread?  Is there something wrong with people having differing opinions, and expressing them? Is there something wrong with debate - even passionate debate?
We all know that faith/religion is a "hot button" topic, so if we choose to engage in the discussion, we simply need to keep that in mind. If a person cannot engage in that discussion in a reasonable fashion - without rancor or personal attack - then that person should simply ignore the thread and go on to bigger and better things...
However, everyone on this site has the right to open a thread on any topic (as long as it is in the correct category...), and everyone else has the right to "weigh in" with their opinion, whether pro or con, whether calmly or passionately.
Peace.
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Snow Dog
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Posted: August 20 2005 at 21:40 |
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^ Hah....I new wishing wouldn't work! What if I pray?
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BaldFriede
Prog Reviewer
Joined: June 02 2005
Location: Germany
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Points: 10266
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Posted: August 21 2005 at 02:29 |
tangerine62 wrote:
Let's put this to bed, all you god believers,
go and believe, the rest of us.....we'll live the real life. To
Ricochet......i feel air so it exists, but god...don't make me laugh.
How do you feel god? god has made many a religion rich and will
continue to. Also, someone mentioned that if there is no god then there
is no free will?, what drugs were you taking when u wrote that.
Science is true, god has yet to be proven, the bible is a joke, a
nice fairy book that keeps the christian masses happy/ignorant.
Finally, as a famous comedian once said during a visit to an RC hall,
he looked up and saw the crucifix, and said " is that what you do to
people who break in here". Probably more true than anything so far.
Please end this thread. |
You seem to portrait people who believe in God as not being capable of
living what you call a "real life", yet one will get you ten that in
everyday situations you won't be able to tell the difference beween a
believer and a non-believer. As to science: I already pointed out that
many scientists believe in God, so there is absolutely no contradiction
there. Finally, as I also said before, it is possible to believe in God
without being of the Christian faith, so don't start waving the bible
at us. As to the post about free will (I assume you refer to the
dialogue between a mortal and God posted by me; it was written by
Raymond Smullyan, one of the leading logicians in the world, and is
from his book "The Tao is Silent"): What kind of drug were
you on when you read that post? Nothing even remotely like "without God
there is no free will" is ever stated in that dialogue.
Edited by BaldFriede
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 BaldJean and I; I am the one in blue.
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goose
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Joined: June 20 2004
Location: United Kingdom
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Points: 4097
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Posted: August 21 2005 at 03:40 |
tangerine62 wrote:
Science is true,
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Errr... what? Is that all science, or just bits of it?
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goose
Forum Senior Member
Joined: June 20 2004
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Posted: August 21 2005 at 03:53 |
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No concept can be proven without making some very basic assumptions. The difference between religion and science is that religion isn't trying to be proven, so in that sense it's much more successful on its own terms.
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GPFR
Forum Senior Member
Joined: August 05 2005
Status: Offline
Points: 760
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Posted: August 21 2005 at 07:57 |
Tony R wrote:
GPFR wrote:
tangerine62 wrote:
i feel air so it exists, but god...don't make me laugh. How do you
feel god? god has made many a religion rich and will continue to.
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So you beleive what you observe, eh? What about the
feeling of being stared at? We all get it, but there is no logical way
for us to know we are being stared at. Do you beleive that feeling is
fake?
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Instinct.
We once lived on the plains and we had hungry predators waiting
to pounce on us.The smell of danger (adrenaline?),the merest glimpse of
a shape,who knows? But it has remained as you have
unintentionally pointed out.
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But instinct is also not able to be observed, only the actions based on instict.
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www.myspace.com/hail_peter
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GPFR
Forum Senior Member
Joined: August 05 2005
Status: Offline
Points: 760
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Posted: August 21 2005 at 08:02 |
tangerine62 wrote:
GPFR what the f**k has that got to do with god.
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nothing really about god, just the fact that one would be hypocritical
to beleive in one without the other, thus disproving all arguement that
was trying to be made. (Atleast htat was what I was trying to get at.)
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Snow Dog
Special Collaborator
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Joined: March 23 2005
Location: Caerdydd
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Posted: August 21 2005 at 09:14 |
Snow Dog wrote:
^ Hah....I new wishing wouldn't work! What if I pray? |
Hah......praying didn't work either!
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Posted: August 24 2005 at 17:44 |
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I still can't believe so many sane people believe in god. As for scientists believing, Carl Sagan absolutely hated the idea of there being a god...so i'm in good company. The worst type of christian....the ones not eaten by the lions.....................i wonder how many have a sense of humour?
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BaldJean
Prog Reviewer
Joined: May 28 2005
Location: Germany
Status: Offline
Points: 10387
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Posted: August 24 2005 at 18:27 |
tangerine62 wrote:
I still can't believe so many sane people believe in
god. As for scientists believing, Carl Sagan absolutely hated the idea
of there being a god...so i'm in good company. The worst type of
christian....the ones not eaten by the lions.....................i
wonder how many have a sense of humour? |
there were and are scientists who believed in God, and there were and
are scientists who don't. but no science at all can give an answer to
the question "why?" the main difference between an atheist and a
believer (no matter of what faith; for some people it seems to be
necessary to point out that there are other ways of believing in God
than the Christian way) is that for an atheist the world does not make
sense. for a believer it does
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 A shot of me as High Priestess of Gaia during our fall festival. Ceterum censeo principiis obsta
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Snow Dog
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Posted: August 24 2005 at 18:39 |
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For an atheist the world doesn't make sense? Do you even know what you are talking about? Makes perfect sense to me!
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Posted: August 24 2005 at 18:47 |
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Me too.............i have no problems with life or anything else. god just isn't a part of it now or forever. The world also makes perfect sense to me, everyone wants more land, food, money......just about anything else you want to name. Will it be gods will if we all kill ourselves? Finally if god is the holy trinitry...........why did he lose 6 million jews, and over 7 million other ethnic minorities.
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