Religion Poll

Tony R wrote: Once more, "My name isnt Bill" is that a philosophy? Or a statement? "I do not believe in God" is that a statement or a Philosophy? I contend that it is only a Philosophy to someone who does believe in God. In the same way that  "My name isnt Bill" would only be a Philosophy to the "I Believe Tony Is Called Bill" Sect. I do not like tags for non-belief.....that is my Philosophy!

the difference? look at the bold. one is a statement of fact. the other is a statement of opinion. if i were to follow your logic, wouldn't every "negative" philosophy be a non-philosophy? for instance, consider the political philosophy of nationalism. nationalists believe that one's country is supreme to all else. antinationalists, on the other hand, believe, for a number of reasons, that the state/nation is not supreme. does that mean that the set of ideas that antinationalists are advocating do not constitute a philosophy just because they take the negative side of the argument? if the negative side of the debate has reasoned arguments and a philosophical approach, why can't it be a philosophy? "antinationalists" can also be called "internationalists". Is internationalism a philosophy? I think so. Is internationalism the same thing as antinationalism? Clearly it is. Therefore, is antinationalism a philosophy? Yes. And as was established before, it is a negative philosophy. So, from this short argument, we can conclude that philosophies that take the negative vantage point are still valid philosophies. So, in summary, we've concluded that a) a philosophy is a statement of some sort of belief, i.e. "i don't believe that god exists" and b) that a set of reasoned arguments, whether it be positive or negative, is a philosophy. Therefore, I would consider atheism a philosophy, since atheism, like antinationalism, is a negative philosophy that contains a series of reasoned arguments.

PS: by negative, i mean that the philosophy is taking the dissenting opinion, not that it has a negative attitude or is a bad philosophy

PSS: so you don't like tags for non-belief... unfortunately, it just so happens that "non-belief" is a type of belief. even the most ardent rationalists accept postulates in their philosophies... these, too, are beliefs. unless you're some kind of god (no joke intended) and have the divine power to prove something true beyond doubt, everything to some extent is a belief. you exist... so you think you know. how do you know that? maybe its just something you believe


Edited by Sweetnighter

"There is no God."

"There is no Bogey-Man"

Which is a philosophical statement? Both would be if someone started a Bogeyman Cult.

I will only get passionate about either statement if someone declares the opposite is true and invites me to comment.

My long-winded point is that,to me,belief in God is equally as ridiculous as the belief in the Bogey-Man and come from the same book of campside stories  (Maani might argue that the Bogey-Man is a metaphor for the Devil).That is not a philosophy it is an observation.

I hate tags,jargon and all other esoteric bullsh*t designed to make the user appear intellectually superior when in effect it just describes the users herd mentality.

Tony R wrote: "There is no God." "There is no Bogey-Man" Which is a philosophical statement? Both would be if someone started a Bogeyman Cult. I will only get passionate about either statement if someone declares the opposite is true and invites me to comment. My long-winded point is that,to me,belief in God is equally as ridiculous as the belief in the Bogey-Man and come from the same book of campside stories  (Maani might argue that the Bogey-Man is a metaphor for the Devil).That is not a philosophy it is an observation. I hate tags,jargon and all other esoteric bullsh*t designed to make the user appear intellectually superior when in effect it just describes the users herd mentality.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atheism#God_as_a_philosophical_ category

You didn't respond to a thing I wrote. Why do you keep bringing this "passionate" issue up? Who cares!? Whether you're passionate about a philosophy or not is totally non sequitur. Atheism, whether or not you identify it as a philosophy, is a philosophy that many people adhere to. Its a group of ideas that, together, are designed to disprove the existence of deities. Thats philosophy. You may interpret that to be "intellectual snobbery" if you like, fine, but atheism is still philosophy! thats what it is! Atheism is far more than just an "observation".

You also seem to be arguing that atheism doesn't need to be a philosophy becuase theism shouldn't be a philosophy. I hear what you're saying, and I agree with you that theism is a ridiculous concept, but there are others (a vast majority of others) who disagree with us. Regardless, there's a conflict of opinion, and the result is the development of two philosophies, theism and atheism, which use arguments to try to disprove one another. Just because you don't like it that way doesn't mean that those entities aren't philosophies.

Sweetnighter wrote: I don't believe any higher powers exist, so I consider myself an atheist.

Atheism isn't a simple lack of belief, it's a disbelief. I think you said elsewhere in the post (which I deleted in the quotation, whoops) that you believe that there is no God, so from that statement you probably are an atheist, but true atheism doesn't come just from not believing. Just thought I'd clear up/confuse matters a bit.

Tony:

True - I cannot prove that the bogey-man does not exist.  But under what rubric can you make the definitive statement that "I will tell you he doesn't."  Based on what empirical evidence?  After all, you are a rationalist, so you must believe in the "scientific method," which requires empirical "proof" - or, at a bare minimum, supporting data - in order to make declarative statements of theory, much less fact.

It is this "absolute certainty" in your "atheist" arguments that leaves your positions open to "attack" - both rational and faith-based.

Peace.

Athiest pig for me

I wish there were a knob on the TV to turn up the intelligence? There's one marked "Brightness," but it doesn't work 

GOD IS DEAD
I AND YOU HAVE KILLED HIM

Friedrich Nietzche

....or maybe he never existed in the first place,anyway,thanks Friedrich

Christian.

James Lee wrote:

"I believe in god as a concept created by mankind (or possibly by animals, plants or bacteria...it's impossible to say with certainty that another kind of life doesn't have a sort of spirituality). Do animals see us as a kind of god? That's how I interpret most of the classic portrayals...human beings as a victim of His condescending 'love' and thoughtless slaughter.

I do not believe in God as a conscious entity, omniscient and omnipotent...if I did, I would be forced to align with His enemy due to the pain and suffering He has knowingly caused. Whoever came up with the ultimate rationalization "God works in mysterious ways" should be remembered as one of mankind's most successful apologists.

Such a being, responsible for the deaths of everyone we have ever known and cared about, deserves one of two faiths: the faith that such a monster could not exist in the real world, or the faith that we are all doomed to be flaccid puppets in a baffling performance that we can never comprehend, let alone enjoy. I chose the former.

Every bit of faith you give to this supposed deity is quisling loyalty to the murderer of your parents and your children. I do not believe mainly because I have no wish to dedicate my life to revenge."

 

James, God does not murder, if he did He would be breaking His own law. God gave us the ability to decide for ourselves our own paths. He gave us freedom and FREE WILL to do as we wish. We have the conscious knowledge of what is right and wrong but many CHOOSE to do wrong like murder (not talking about war or self defense here). We can also choose to accept who He is or not. It's all OUR OWN choice.

We have never been puppets of God but of man.