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Direct Link To This Post Topic: Prog Electric Guitar Models
    Posted: August 19 2005 at 04:03

Hey guys,

Ill get right to the point, instead of my usual introductory "fluff".  Im attempting to take up the electric guitar--  I already have a good knowledge of music, being a capable musician at several woodwind instruments, and would ideally like to become a more well-rounded musician (+ the electric guitar has always looked like such a kick ass in-your-face instrument, unlike woodwinds unfortunetely .) I will likely be able to pick it up fairly quickly seeing as ive got lots of free-time on my hands at the moment -- being a 17 year old with little responsibility and all.  Now to my conundrum: 

 Im completely ignorant to the world of guitars and have done a bit of reseach to try to get myself up to speed.  Yet, the problem is that these days most guitars seem to be geared towards hardcore metal heads, and create a sound much too harsh for my liking-- unless im willing fork out over $1000, b4 ive ever so much as played a scale on the guitar.  I was wondering if there was anyone out there who knows something about this field and could recommend some electric guitar models and/or companies which produce a sound in which the loudness is not so much emphasized, but the sound quality, and anything else that is important to electric guitars which are geared towards progressive rock.  My price range is pretty much anything up to about $600--- most desirably below $400 US ($500 Canadian.)

Much appreciated

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 19 2005 at 04:08
the first two that come to mind are of course the Fender Stratocaster and the Gibson Les Paul. I have no idea about their prices in the USA though


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Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 19 2005 at 04:09
I am not a guitar player,I am a drummer,and you will probably get a lot more informed opinions than mine,but most of the guitarists I know and play with swear by the Fender Stratocaster.


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Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 19 2005 at 04:11
Yep the American Standard Fender Strat has been of the best guitar values for decades. You can probably buy one brand new for right around your money limit.

And if you don't want to spend quite that much money, the Mexican made Strats run around 300-400 dollars (U.S.), I think.

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 19 2005 at 04:48

I would recommend the Line 6 Variax 300, it offers several guitar sounds - Fender, Gibson, Acoustic, ...

http://www.line6.com/variax/specifications.html

It really works, and such a guitar can save you a lot of money. You can switch between the sound of a Fender Stratocaster and that of a Gibson Les Paul in no time.

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 19 2005 at 04:54
If you are just starting out go and buy the cheapest one that sounds okay- at this stage it doesn't have to be a name brand. After all, you might not like playing the guitar. It may also be well to remember that playing a guitar is a bit of a conundrum. It is very easy to learn, but exceptionally difficult to master.

ps. this thread will get moved shortly


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Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 19 2005 at 05:25

The Variax 300 is priced around $450, quite a bargain if you consider that it's really several totally different guitars packed into one instrument.

The only drawback is that it doesn't have a vibrato bar, and 22 frets instead of 24. But those are problems that many other guitars have as well.

BTW: Currently I play an ESP Standard Horizon NT-II, which also has no vibrato system.

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 19 2005 at 06:08

In my opinion, when it comes to tone shaping, most of the work is done by the pickups and the amp rather than the guitar itself. I have an Ibanez RG which is designed for metalheads and shredder types, but i can get prog rock out of it or jazz even.

This sounds really cliche and over-used but it's so true: the real tone comes from your hands, the amp just colours it. A few years back i was doing work experience in a recording studio and the guy who ran it told us (me and the other work experience dude) to bring our stuff in and record something. So i brought this RG in and all i had at the time was a little 21w samick amp and a boss metalzone (being the tonedeaf metalhead i was  ). So the guy picked the guitar up and started playing, and using the exact same equipment i always used he just made that thing sing! I had never heard my guitar play like that before! A sh*tty distortion pedal, a crappy amp and he was making it sound amazing.

Well that anecdote was pretty useless but i was reminded of it

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 19 2005 at 06:11
Pretty much hit the nail on the head though, Reverie
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 19 2005 at 06:18

^^ That's certainly true. But no matter how talent someone is, he cannot make a Gibson Les Paul sound like a Fender Stratocaster. That's because the wood of the guitars is entirely different, the neck construction as well (Gibson: Neck is glued to the corpus, Fender: Neck is attached using screws). You will never get a Gibson to "twang", even my Gibson Nuighthawk doesn't twang, and it has single coils. The twang is caused by the wood of the Strat/Tele guitars and the bolts in the neck.

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 19 2005 at 07:12
Very true Mike! Certainly different constructions and wood types yeild different attributes to the sound, but i think both bolt on necks, neck throughs, hollow bodies etc. all have a place in prog, depending on where you want to take your prog music. I mean prog rock can be a pretty open style of music. But yeah i hadn't really thought of that.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 19 2005 at 07:23
since you're a beginner, I would suggest not to go too far with brands and especially money, so you'd better choose a cheap guitar...there are some good brands like Epiphone, if you like the les paul style, or maybe you could opt for a Mexican or Japanese Fender, if you like the strat. PLEASE LEAVE ALONE THE VARIAX at this stage, I think it could be a little confusing since, as you said, you still haven't played a scale on a guitar. That's a guitar for the pro's, or for people who already know what they need and what they don't.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 19 2005 at 08:02

Originally posted by porter porter wrote:

since you're a beginner, I would suggest not to go too far with brands and especially money, so you'd better choose a cheap guitar...there are some good brands like Epiphone, if you like the les paul style, or maybe you could opt for a Mexican or Japanese Fender, if you like the strat. PLEASE LEAVE ALONE THE VARIAX at this stage, I think it could be a little confusing since, as you said, you still haven't played a scale on a guitar. That's a guitar for the pro's, or for people who already know what they need and what they don't.

Quite the opposite. Why do you want to force him to decide whether he's a Fender or Gibson guy? The Variax is certainly a good guitar for beginners - especially the Variax 300. Hey, you not only get both Gibson and Fender sounds, but also quite good simulations of various acoustic guitars including a 12 string guitar.

I'd rather say the reverse: The Variax is NOT a guitar for pros, because the sounds are not as good as the genuine versions. But they're DAMN good, and certainly better than cheap versions of Fender and Gibson guitars.

BTW: If you use your computer to play music, you might want to consider buying the GuitarPort instead of a fully fledged amp. Its sound is as good as that of the POD XT ... 



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Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 19 2005 at 08:17

Fender Strat is the one almost every guitarist cuts his teeth on before moving up to more elite models.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 19 2005 at 08:42

Originally posted by Gedhead Gedhead wrote:


Fender Strat is the one almost every guitarist cuts his teeth on before moving up to more elite models.

The Fender Strat is actually one of the more difficult guitars to start with. If you don't like the Variax (I'll stop promoting that one, I've done enough of that already), I'd recommend Yamaha. Their Pacifica guitars are quite versatile and the quality is ok. 

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 19 2005 at 09:47
Originally posted by MikeEnRegalia MikeEnRegalia wrote:

Originally posted by Gedhead Gedhead wrote:


Fender Strat is the one almost every guitarist cuts his teeth on before moving up to more elite models.

The Fender Strat is actually one of the more difficult guitars to start with. If you don't like the Variax (I'll stop promoting that one, I've done enough of that already), I'd recommend Yamaha. Their Pacifica guitars are quite versatile and the quality is ok. 



Somehow I knew you were a guitarist.

So I assume you have a Variax? I've got a Vetta II (which I love), and I've been looking at picking a Variax up. Which model do you have? How do you like it?
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 19 2005 at 09:50

Originally posted by Empathy Empathy wrote:


Somehow I knew you were a guitarist.

So I assume you have a Variax? I've got a Vetta II (which I love), and I've been looking at picking a Variax up. Which model do you have? How do you like it?

Unfortunately I don't have one (yet). When the first Variax was available, it lacked the vibrato system and only had 22 frets. While I can live without a vibrato system, I really need 24 frets for some of my favorite songs ...

 

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 19 2005 at 11:24
Unless you're willing to shell out ALOT of money, you can't get a decent guitar in this day and age, which is why all my equipment is vintage 60's or 70's. New equipment is all mass produced, even in companies like Gibson, so the quality is definately sub-par, and companies like ESP or Peavy gear their equipment towards metal or punk. I suggest going to a pawn shop and looking for an old Les Paul or Gibson SG or something along those lines. Pawn Shops sell things ridiculously cheap, and usually in good condition.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 19 2005 at 12:20
Well, you need to ask yourself what kind of sound you want.  Who is your model?  Gilmour?  Gilmour played a strat mainly.

The best all-around guitars out there are Fenders and Gibsons.  You can get cheap knockoffs of these, but I wouldn't.  You can also get a guitar by a lot of other companies, but there's a reason why they are not the best.  Gibson and Fender have a long history of great quality control.


So if I were in your shoes, I'd get a Fender Stratocaster.  The Telecasters are cheaper, good guitars, but I think they're not as high quality.  The Strat is probably the best value for your money.  But if you like a less twangy, fuller-bodies sound, a Gibson might be your choice.  The double humbucker of a Gibson Les Paul makes a big sound difference, as well as the wood and bridgework (as somebody mentioned).


One note: if you're going to pick up an instrument and you want to get good at it, why in the world would you cut corners?  Learn on quality, and learn right the first time.

Second note: don't bother with collector's items.  Who cares if it's old?  Not me.  Go with a company with a long tradition of quality.  Fender and Gibson are that.

Also, maple necks can be easier for beginners.  That's what the strat has.  Rosewood is different.  I like it better, but it takes some getting used to.



And me?  I play a Fender Master Series Flame Ultra, which I bought new in 1986.  It's a white (actually platinum blonde) beauty, and I've taken excellent care of it.  The Master Series guitars were made with double humbuckers with coil splitters, so you can play with double pickups or singles.  The body makes it sound like a Gibson, but the coil splitters and neck make it sound like a Strat.  So, depending on setting and whether you ujse the coil splitterss, the guitar can sound either like a Les Paul or a Strat. 

Master series: http://www.vintageguitar.com/brands/details.asp?ID=18

I've had several people offer me several times its purchase value, but I won't sell.  I've had one friend claim it has the best action of any guitar he has ever played.

I play it through a Roland JC120, though it's getting a little hissy and maybe I need a new amp. 



Think hard about the approach you want to take to learning.  I recommend a combination of 1) basic chord books, 2) basic soloing book, 3) a guitar workout book (drills for speed and dexterity), and 4) PRACTICE WITH A METRONOME (so many self-taught guitarist have lousy rhythm).

Some big tips: do not try to go faster than you are able!!!!!  If you mess up, then you are going too fast.  It is better to practice slowly making no mistakes than faster making mistakes, as you are actually PRACTICING the mistakes!  Think about it!  My mother in law is a concert-level pianist who has taught master classes her entire life (was one of those child prodigies).  She endorses this method.

Two--warm up with drills.  You are basically an athlete, and athletes don't just play their sport, they train a lot to enhance their ability.  Doing extensive picking, fingering and chord change drills was the best thing I ever did for my technique.

Since I was emulating Gilmour, I also added vibrato drills to my guitar drills routine:  quarter, eighth, sixteenth, triplet and sextuplet vibrato at various  tempos.  Later I added doing this with bends with various fingers.  Hard core, but that's how you get the world's best vibrato, like Gilmour.  Now I can play most Gilmour solos, no problem, vibrato and all.



Edit: tremolo arms are a cop-out for wusses, at least if you are using them to add vibrato.  No reall pro uses them for that purpose, and an experienced ear can always tell.  Using them for other purposes (like Adrian Belew ) is another matter!  Also, remember that excessive tremolo use really detunes your guitar.  Belew uses a high-end tremolo system, and still needs to retune all the time.


Edited by Wormboy
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 19 2005 at 12:26
Originally posted by MikeEnRegalia MikeEnRegalia wrote:

Originally posted by porter porter wrote:

since you're a beginner, I would suggest not to go too far with brands and especially money, so you'd better choose a cheap guitar...there are some good brands like Epiphone, if you like the les paul style, or maybe you could opt for a Mexican or Japanese Fender, if you like the strat. PLEASE LEAVE ALONE THE VARIAX at this stage, I think it could be a little confusing since, as you said, you still haven't played a scale on a guitar. That's a guitar for the pro's, or for people who already know what they need and what they don't.

Quite the opposite. Why do you want to force him to decide whether he's a Fender or Gibson guy? The Variax is certainly a good guitar for beginners - especially the Variax 300. Hey, you not only get both Gibson and Fender sounds, but also quite good simulations of various acoustic guitars including a 12 string guitar.

I'd rather say the reverse: The Variax is NOT a guitar for pros, because the sounds are not as good as the genuine versions. But they're DAMN good, and certainly better than cheap versions of Fender and Gibson guitars.

BTW: If you use your computer to play music, you might want to consider buying the GuitarPort instead of a fully fledged amp. Its sound is as good as that of the POD XT ... 



Sorry, I totally disagree.  A Variax would be a horrible choice for a beginner.  Frankly, it doesn't matter that much what you learn on as long as it's a good instrument.  Go with standards, and worry about the Gibson/Fender split after a couple of years.  No beginner really cares about that kind of crap anyway.  They are just trying to learn a new instrument.

Sounds to me like you're pushing a specific guitar for some reason.  Variax rep, are you?
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