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Topic ClosedEinstuerzende Neubauten?

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Poll Question: What is the best way of classifying Einstuerzede Neubauten?
Poll Choice Votes Poll Statistics
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7 [31.82%]
2 [9.09%]
9 [40.91%]
4 [18.18%]
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Publius View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 14 2005 at 20:21

Ah. I thought they were 'mildly progressive' and not prog.

I'm so prog, I clap in 9/8
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 14 2005 at 20:22
Originally posted by Publius Publius wrote:

Ah. I thought they were 'mildly progressive' and not prog.

And Einstürzende Neubauten, are they just progressive or prog? I'd say that they're "somewhat" progressive.

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 14 2005 at 20:23
Yeah, same. Definitely not prog, but somewhat progressive. See! We're on the right lines.
I'm so prog, I clap in 9/8
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 14 2005 at 20:25
Wonderful - so we can both be happy and call it a night.

Edited by MikeEnRegalia
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 14 2005 at 20:26
Originally posted by Publius Publius wrote:

Yes I do but you misunderstand me. I said 'Front 242 are progressive' because I haven't heard them.



Front By Front is wonderful!
And above all, is punk
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 14 2005 at 20:39
cool, I'll check it out sometime.
I'm so prog, I clap in 9/8
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 16 2005 at 08:23

Originally posted by Publius Publius wrote:

I always did. But aren't Yes always referred to as the public as a rock band? Countless times I have seen 'Rock keyboardist Rick Wakeman'. Just because they are a different genre doesn't mean they aren't prog. Prog metal, prog rock, prog house, prog electronic, even prog death. this is just prog industrial.

Sure, and prog disco, prog ska, prog punk, etc.

"Progressive rock is the key to the continuance of human evolution." - Charles Darwin
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 16 2005 at 09:30
my personal opinion is: if "prog" really stands for "progressive", then the Einstürzende Neubauten should be included. the archive lists the sub-genre "avantgarde", which is exactly where they belong. their numerous appearances as musical background for radio or theatrical plays only add to this impression. they are 100% prog, but also 100% avantgarde, so fans of symphonic prog, beware!


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Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 16 2005 at 09:56

Originally posted by BaldJean BaldJean wrote:

my personal opinion is: if "prog" really stands for "progressive", then the Einstürzende Neubauten should be included. the archive lists the sub-genre "avantgarde", which is exactly where they belong. their numerous appearances as musical background for radio or theatrical plays only add to this impression. they are 100% prog, but also 100% avantgarde, so fans of symphonic prog, beware!

But they're dilettantes - at least during the first ten years, when they were most experimental, they couldn't play instruments properly. Surely there's a difference between an artist who is an excellent musician who plays minimalistic stuff (for example Zappa), and an artist who just avoids playing complex music because he's not capable of it. 

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 16 2005 at 10:11
Originally posted by MikeEnRegalia MikeEnRegalia wrote:

Originally posted by BaldJean BaldJean wrote:

my personal opinion is: if "prog" really stands for "progressive", then the Einstürzende Neubauten should be included. the archive lists the sub-genre "avantgarde", which is exactly where they belong. their numerous appearances as musical background for radio or theatrical plays only add to this impression. they are 100% prog, but also 100% avantgarde, so fans of symphonic prog, beware!

But they're dilettantes - at least during the first ten years, when they were most experimental, they couldn't play instruments properly. Surely there's a difference between an artist who is an excellent musician who plays minimalistic stuff (for example Zappa), and an artist who just avoids playing complex music because he's not capable of it. 


a lot of bands are or were more or less dilettantes. Tangerine Dream for example never were great virtuosos either. the attitude of "learning by doing" is not the worst one


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Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 16 2005 at 10:18
Granted. I guess this is a matter of taste and the dilletantism must be seen in conjunction with - or in comparison to - the amount of congeniality and artistry. IMHO the Einstürzende Neubauten are not good enough to compensate for their dilletantism. Add to that their Punk influences, and you have the reason for not wanting them on this website.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 16 2005 at 10:25
Originally posted by MikeEnRegalia MikeEnRegalia wrote:

IMHO the Einstürzende Neubauten are not good enough to compensate for their dilletantism. Add to that their Punk influences, and you have the reason for not wanting them on this website.

this is where our opinions differ. I think the artistic expression of the Einstürzende Neubauten justifies their inclusion. that's why I especially pointed out their contribution to theatrical and radio plays


Edited by BaldJean


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Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 16 2005 at 10:28
by the way, the New Gibraltar Encyclopedia of Progressive Music lists them


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Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 16 2005 at 10:48
I would not oppose their addition to the archives the way others did when Queen were added. I see why you - and many others - consider them to be progressive. Maybe it has something to do with my musical background, I'm always looking for outstanding musicianship.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 16 2005 at 12:24
Good to see I've started this conversation off - I am definitely considering adding them to the archives...Now, all in favour say aye!
I'm so prog, I clap in 9/8
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 16 2005 at 21:03
Originally posted by MikeEnRegalia MikeEnRegalia wrote:

Surely there's a difference between an artist who is an excellent musician who plays minimalistic stuff (for example Zappa), and an artist who just avoids playing complex music because he's not capable of it. 



And, also, there's a BIG difference between what you think is 'being capable' and what I think. So this is a invalid argument, for sure...
And above all, is punk
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 16 2005 at 21:04
Originally posted by BaldJean BaldJean wrote:

Originally posted by MikeEnRegalia MikeEnRegalia wrote:

IMHO the Einstürzende Neubauten are not good enough to compensate for their dilletantism. Add to that their Punk influences, and you have the reason for not wanting them on this website.

this is where our opinions differ. I think the artistic expression of the Einstürzende Neubauten justifies their inclusion. that's why I especially pointed out their contribution to theatrical and radio plays


Good point...
And above all, is punk
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 17 2005 at 01:56
Originally posted by Fantômas Fantômas wrote:

Originally posted by MikeEnRegalia MikeEnRegalia wrote:

Surely there's a difference between an artist who is an excellent musician who plays minimalistic stuff (for example Zappa), and an artist who just avoids playing complex music because he's not capable of it. 



And, also, there's a BIG difference between what you think is 'being capable' and what I think. So this is a invalid argument, for sure...

Not invalid ... but surely impossible to prove. I just never heard any recording that showed me that the Einstürzende Neubauten can really play. I love listening to Zappa's "You call that music?" where everyone is just goofing around on their instruments, because I KNOW what they're capable of.

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 17 2005 at 14:17
Originally posted by MikeEnRegalia MikeEnRegalia wrote:

Originally posted by Fantômas Fantômas wrote:

Originally posted by MikeEnRegalia MikeEnRegalia wrote:

Surely there's a difference between an artist who is an excellent musician who plays minimalistic stuff (for example Zappa), and an artist who just avoids playing complex music because he's not capable of it. 



And, also, there's a BIG difference between what you think is 'being capable' and what I think. So this is a invalid argument, for sure...

Not invalid ... but surely impossible to prove. I just never heard any recording that showed me that the Einstürzende Neubauten can really play. I love listening to Zappa's "You call that music?" where everyone is just goofing around on their instruments, because I KNOW what they're capable of.



I see your point, but I have a question (in simple words that my poor english can reach): They can play, but they don't... The others 'can't' play and they don't. So this is my question: Where's the difference? The final result is what matters, not what they're capable of (IMO, of course)...
And above all, is punk
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 17 2005 at 14:35
Originally posted by Fantômas Fantômas wrote:

Originally posted by MikeEnRegalia MikeEnRegalia wrote:

Originally posted by Fantômas Fantômas wrote:

Originally posted by MikeEnRegalia MikeEnRegalia wrote:

Surely there's a difference between an artist who is an excellent musician who plays minimalistic stuff (for example Zappa), and an artist who just avoids playing complex music because he's not capable of it. 



And, also, there's a BIG difference between what you think is 'being capable' and what I think. So this is a invalid argument, for sure...

Not invalid ... but surely impossible to prove. I just never heard any recording that showed me that the Einstürzende Neubauten can really play. I love listening to Zappa's "You call that music?" where everyone is just goofing around on their instruments, because I KNOW what they're capable of.



I see your point, but I have a question (in simple words that my poor english can reach): They can play, but they don't... The others 'can't' play and they don't. So this is my question: Where's the difference? The final result is what matters, not what they're capable of (IMO, of course)...

I know what you mean. I'm not saying that I'm right - it's a rule that makes sense to me. As I said - I'm a musician, and I consider prog to be a form of art which is based on music. I'm primarily interested in musically challenging stuff. Even if it was "played" by virtuoso musicians, I couldn't listen to a whole album of noise.

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