Bands that don’t belong to Progarchives |
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Geee
Forum Senior Member Joined: April 08 2005 Location: Malta Status: Offline Points: 106 |
Topic: Bands that don’t belong to Progarchives Posted: May 07 2005 at 03:50 |
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I've been thinking about this for a long time and I'd love to get some other views. In your opinion, are there any bands featured in Progarchives that you consider that they do not belong here? If yes, why? Also if you consider that a band released one or more, progressive release, but the others are of a different style, should all the albums by that band be reviewed here, or only the progressive release? Thanks |
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"Just as a bell that has been rung cannot be "unrung", the annoying problem with the Truth is that, once you learn it, you can not "unlearn" it."
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Poxx
Forum Senior Member Joined: April 03 2005 Location: Denmark Status: Offline Points: 231 |
Posted: May 07 2005 at 10:03 | ||
Opeth and the double standards. If Opeth is prog, there's a whole lot of other bands that should be listed as well. It seems as if a band's fitting into the definition of prog is not the major concern for a band to be listed, but rather how much the admins/collaborators like the band or not.
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goose
Forum Senior Member Joined: June 20 2004 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 4097 |
Posted: May 07 2005 at 10:41 | ||
There aren't really double standards with Opeth. Opeth have done one straight up progressive rock album, something no one even out of the more adventurous extreme metal groups has done to my knowlege (perhaps Amorphis, actually, but I'm not too familiar with them). While I'd consider Edge of Sanity more progressive as a band than Opeth, they've never done that.
Incidentally when did Anacrusis get added? I like them but I seem to remember a while ago they weren't going to be added? (and I agreed) |
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Scrambled_Eggs
Forum Senior Member Joined: December 13 2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 287 |
Posted: May 07 2005 at 10:45 | ||
I don't think Radiohead should be considered prog. Though some points of there music shows some prog elements, they're essentially just another grunge band. Of course, I'm biased against all the new crap the kids my age listen to today, except The Mars Volta.
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goose
Forum Senior Member Joined: June 20 2004 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 4097 |
Posted: May 07 2005 at 10:49 | ||
Errr... grunge band? Pyramid Song? Paranoid Android? Airbag? Subterranean Homesick Alien? I Might be Wrong? Kid A? That's not by any means an exhaustive list, but a few that sprung to mind. The only song they've done that could really be considered grunge is Creep, and that's either a very good parody of grunge or a very good example of post-grunge. |
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JMCecil
Forum Senior Member Joined: May 01 2005 Status: Offline Points: 210 |
Posted: May 07 2005 at 10:50 | ||
I'm divided on the issue. First, it's kind of retarded to see bands like Opeth, Dream Theatre and the other pseudo metal bands on a prog list. Then you see people missing on the other end of spectrum like Brian Eno or Vangelis (although I guess Vangelis is sort of on the list). Eno and a bunch of other guys are just as much prog as Opeth and DT if our definition is that broad. And someone like that actually was an innovator. On the other hand. One of the things that is great about this site and others like it is that you can see a vast amount of information about bands with different styles. I like this exposure to stuff I normally wouldn't even think about. Especially bands from outside the US. I just wish the fanboys would give it a rest. If I see 5 stars on a metal band review it's a dead giveaway that the review has nothing to do with the album, but only with the reviewers OMGZERS DIZ BAND IZ TEH RULE!11!!!. There are a few exceptions but not many.
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goose
Forum Senior Member Joined: June 20 2004 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 4097 |
Posted: May 07 2005 at 11:13 | ||
Hey, I'd give any Devil Doll album 5 stars, because they really are that good!
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frenchie
Prog Reviewer Joined: July 30 2004 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 2234 |
Posted: May 07 2005 at 12:09 | ||
i am a huge grunge fan and radiohead were not a part of that movement, their first album however, was released in the height of grunge when pearl jam, nirvana, pumpkins, alice in chains, soundgarden etc were at their peak. Pablo honey could be mistaken as a grunge album but their other albums are alt rock. PH sounds nirvana influenced.
There is a certain style of appearance and sound that all the aforementioned grunge bands had in common and i think they mostly arrived from seattle, radiohead were just a bunch of geeks from oxford trying to make it into the big world, they did it tho! |
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The Worthless Recluse
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Certif1ed
Special Collaborator Honorary Collaborator Joined: April 08 2004 Location: England Status: Offline Points: 7559 |
Posted: May 07 2005 at 13:33 | ||
All the bands in the Archives belong there - it's the decision of M@X and Rony! I think that the question should be "What bands in the archives are not strictly Prog Rock bands?" Asia are top of the list |
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goose
Forum Senior Member Joined: June 20 2004 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 4097 |
Posted: May 07 2005 at 13:48 | ||
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geezer
Forum Senior Member Joined: April 03 2005 Location: Cocos (Keeling) Islands Status: Offline Points: 606 |
Posted: May 07 2005 at 14:12 | ||
Are you saying that Devil Doll are metal? If you are, I complitely disagree. They are very extreme prog and sometimes heavy but that doesen't make them metal. I have read a lot about the band and they are always considered prog in progressive music sites (and they mainly appear in prog sites). They do have a few fans amongst metal fans but are not metal like Opeth, Dream Theater etc. I don't like prog metal but I think Devil Doll is brilliant. That alone is a clear sign for me that they are prog. Devil Doll should definately not be mentioned in this thread!! Edited by geezer |
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Man Overboard
Forum Senior Member Joined: November 07 2004 Location: Austin, TX Status: Offline Points: 3830 |
Posted: May 07 2005 at 14:14 | ||
I find it sickening that there are people here who honestly believe
that any band having metal elements disqualified it from being
progressive, or disqualifies it from being "as good" as anything else,
to the point where any 5-star review is automatically "not about the
album at all". **** that, it's closed-minded bull**** spewed from
a mouth that belongs to a person would rather listen to 70's LPs and
rehashed neo-prog for the rest of his life.
Progressive music has always been about moving forward. King Crimson not only incorporated metal elements, but if history tells an accurate picture, invented metal elements. This generation's "underground" metal and progressive rock share many ideals, which is why many metalheads get deep into the prog scene, and many proggers discover metal. Steven Wilson once said that the progressive spirit is alive and well in the metal movement. That is evidenced by bands like Opeth, Edge of Sanity, Green Carnation, King Crimson (who prefer the label 'heavy metal' over 'prog'), Fredrik Thordendal, Pain of Salvation, Riverside, and countless others. To dislike them is an opinion. To say these bands are not progressive is to deliver a poorly-told lie. As for Dream Theater? Yes, they're progressive. A bit technical and showoffy, but we've had that in prog before. How can you listen to something like "A Change Of Seasons" and say "Well, this just isn't prog, not in any sense of the word"? That's like looking down at your cock and saying "Durrr! I'm a guuuurl!" (replace genders/organs if you're a female.) |
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Man Overboard
Forum Senior Member Joined: November 07 2004 Location: Austin, TX Status: Offline Points: 3830 |
Posted: May 07 2005 at 14:18 | ||
So, what *does* make a band metal? If Devil Doll isn't metal... then is Diabolical Masquerade, specifically Death's Design, metal either? How about Green Carnation's "Light Of Day, Day Of Darkness"? Are you implying that true progressive music and metal are mutually exclusive concepts? |
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geezer
Forum Senior Member Joined: April 03 2005 Location: Cocos (Keeling) Islands Status: Offline Points: 606 |
Posted: May 07 2005 at 14:35 | ||
Sorry, I didn't say it clearly. Dream Theater and Opeth are prog metal. I think all prog metal bands are firstly metal and secondly prog. Devil Doll shouldn't be put in any metal genre because they are not metal. It is hard to categorize them and they are therefore usually put in the symphonig prog genre. |
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goose
Forum Senior Member Joined: June 20 2004 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 4097 |
Posted: May 07 2005 at 14:46 | ||
They're part of the metal community though - I'd never heard them mentioned in a prog context when I stumbled across them. I agree they're not "standard" metal by any means, of course. If I had to classify them it'd be either gothic or maybe even contemporary classical music. The thing is, plenty of definite metal bands have made excursions into similar territory to Devil Doll, but as far as I know no definite prog bands have. Although it's a cliché, they really do transcend labels, I suppose. And I know a lot of labels!
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geezer
Forum Senior Member Joined: April 03 2005 Location: Cocos (Keeling) Islands Status: Offline Points: 606 |
Posted: May 07 2005 at 15:24 | ||
You people really surprise me. I'm amazed! Maybe this is because I really don't follow the metal scene that much. I have read Devil Doll reviews in different prog sites for years and never seen those other bands you are referring (which most likely are all metal?). DD, however, is quite popular in prog sites. I really think the best definition for them is symphonic prog which they are also usually mentioned to be in prog sites. I do agree with your 2nd last sentence though. And a band can have gothic, classical, metal etc influences and still be labelled symphonic prog. I have never heard any other bands like this though. For me, they sound very progressive and the metal is only one of the many influences that can be heard in their music. The metal is in the minority and doesen't make them sound metal. If it would sound metal music I wouldn't like the band. BTW, i can't understand that you defend them to be a metal band and in the next sentence you say you would rather classify them as classical music. |
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Man Overboard
Forum Senior Member Joined: November 07 2004 Location: Austin, TX Status: Offline Points: 3830 |
Posted: May 07 2005 at 15:31 | ||
Google Fight! "devil doll" metal vs. "devil doll" prog!
The winner is clear, more people refer to them as metal. It's an interesting phenomenon, when people dislike certain genres, but find themself enjoying a band out of that genre, they try their damnedest to fit that band into one of their preferred genres. Indie kids try to classify Joy Division and Tom Waits as indie, prog rockers have mentioned several highly questionable pop-rock bands as prog, it's really funny. Edited by Man Overboard |
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Fibonacci's Se
Forum Senior Member Joined: March 24 2005 Location: Canada Status: Offline Points: 105 |
Posted: May 07 2005 at 15:35 | ||
hear hear i concure, im kind of split on the issue too, |
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cajole the promethean king while his pastiche panjandrum is caught within soleism, genuflect, avoid malversation
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geezer
Forum Senior Member Joined: April 03 2005 Location: Cocos (Keeling) Islands Status: Offline Points: 606 |
Posted: May 07 2005 at 15:39 | ||
This google thingy makes no sense at all. Of course metal search gives a lot more results because metal is very popular and prog is not. And DD has many metal fans who automatically define them metal.
This is honestly not a problem for me. Before I started listening to prog music i listened only metal. I think i know the difference between metal and prog. |
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mickstafa
Forum Senior Member Joined: March 24 2005 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 236 |
Posted: May 07 2005 at 15:39 | ||
WHY WHY WHY, does every other discussion on this board talk about what is or is not prog?!?!?!?! Every single day. "This band is prog.... No its not prog means such and such.... Well to each his own... Well, you suck then...." Naturally with something as objective as a label on music, its prone to debate. I know I can choose not to read it, but sheesh, how about some more discussion? I like reading the boards (rarely post), but its the same damn thing over and over. Its getting to a point where I hate to use the word "prog" because its such a loaded word. Talk about things you like, talk about things you find difficult to like, but please, enough with the prog non-prog debate. I guess I may get flamed for this, but hopefully some of you agree? |
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