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Proglover 
Forum Senior Member
Joined: June 09 2005
Status: Offline
Points: 416
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 Posted: August 10 2005 at 10:21 |
 chopper wrote:
This discussion has detriorated into a upper case rant from proglover, so I'm leaving it with an extract from Mojo Magazines' Top 100 Albums of All Time
3 - Revolver
19 - The Beatles
24 - Abbey Road
27 - Rubber Soul
51 - Sgt. Pepper
55 - We're only in it for the money
63 - With The Beatles
81 - A Hard Days Night
89 - Hot Rats
'nuff said.
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Well when I'm personally attacked what else do you want me to do.....I'm not going to bend over and just take it. So if you don't want me to rant, then don't ATTACK ME....PERIOD.....AND ONCE AGAIN......I COULD CARELESS WHAT A ROCK MAGAZINE SAYS......IT'S SUPERFICIAL GARBAGE.
Edited by maani
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Shack Man
Forum Senior Member
Joined: July 21 2005
Location: Canada
Status: Offline
Points: 105
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Posted: August 10 2005 at 11:57 |
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Wow...you say you like something more than the beatles and get your head taken off...
I know exactly what proglover is talking about.
Edited by Shack Man
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Fantômas
Forum Senior Member
Joined: April 15 2005
Location: Brazil
Status: Offline
Points: 1859
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Posted: August 10 2005 at 17:48 |
maani wrote:
Your near-maniacal fanaticism makes you hopeless with regard to
understanding or accepting one jot or tittle of what is being
said. I'm glad you like Zappa. He's great. He broke
barriers. He was a super guitarist. He had a unique
approach to composition and arrangement. But guess what? He
was just a human being. |
Wrong, dude... Zappa was a GOD, just like Mike Patton, John Zorn, Les Claypool and Edgar Froese are. 
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And above all, is punk 
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Certif1ed
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: April 08 2004
Location: England
Status: Offline
Points: 7559
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Posted: August 11 2005 at 03:26 |
Les Claypool is an average bass player with some good ideas and a nifty sound.
...can anyone say off-topic 
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Fantômas
Forum Senior Member
Joined: April 15 2005
Location: Brazil
Status: Offline
Points: 1859
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Posted: August 11 2005 at 09:57 |
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Claypool isn't average... You may don't like him, that's perfectly
acceptable... But, at least, admit that he is not normal, and his bass
sounds like no other.
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And above all, is punk
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Cheesecakemouse
Forum Senior Member
Joined: April 05 2006
Location: New Zealand
Status: Offline
Points: 1751
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Posted: April 26 2006 at 00:30 |
Moribund wrote:
OK King Crimson may have been the first to recognise, refine and launch, but here's a quick list to agree/disagee/disprove/snarl at/laugh at:-
The Beatles were the first to:-
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Use the studio as a writing tool
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Use the LP as an artform That wasn't the Beatles doing but rather the sleeve designers
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Use multitrack recording creatively
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DI the bass
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Use exotic & orchestral instruments creatively That was more George Martin's influence, he paved the way for them
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Produce the first concept album No Mothers of invention album 'Freakout' was
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Use a moog synthesiser
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Use feedback creatively
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Use many FX and unusual recording techniques (vari-speed, voices thru Leslie Cab, flanging) Stockhausen developed the unusual noises, he started all that, his face appears on Sgt. Peppers sleeve
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Use musique concrete techniques
All yours Ladies & Gentlemen.............................. |
Try Frank Zappa, Miles Davis fusion albums, also Stockhausen's classical compositions to see who also had a heavy influence on prog. All in all the Beatles were just lucky to have such a fantastic producer/engineer and great sleeve designers, although the Beatles have their moments its funny how the general publisc give them the credit for other peoples work.
Edited by Cheesecakemouse - April 28 2006 at 21:51
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mystic fred
Special Collaborator
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Joined: March 13 2006
Location: Londinium
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Points: 4252
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Posted: April 27 2006 at 04:43 |
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the beatles laid down many influences for other musicians to follow, using various instruments, sound effects, orchestral arrangements, which evolved into prog rock. after they stopped touring in 1966 following the "jesus" controversy, they decided to concentrate all their creative energy in the studio, something which they were wanting to do anyway. ELO were influenced by "i am the walrus", where roy wood and jeff lynne "carried on from where the beatles left off".
Edited by mystic fred - April 27 2006 at 04:46
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 Prog Archives Tour Van 
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Sacred 22
Forum Senior Member
Joined: March 24 2006
Status: Offline
Points: 1509
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Posted: April 27 2006 at 05:10 |
I remember seeing the Beatles on Ed Sullivan back in 1964. I was 7.
Did they ever do anything near as good as say, "In the Court of the Crimson King", or "The YES album", or what Zappa was doing with "Freak Out" and the later parody album, "We Are Only In It For The Money". Zappa's work with the "Mothers" is light years beyond anything the Beatles did.
I always saw them as kind of cool pop band that later had the money to muck around with the latest musical and recording gadgets of the day. Sure, they influenced a lot of people, but then again, so did the Dave Clark Five, the Stones, and countless other bands of the day. I don't think Frank took the Beatles all that seriously, just a hunch.
As far as them being prog innovators. Not in my book.
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mystic fred
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Posted: April 27 2006 at 15:57 |
AtomHeartMother wrote:
alan_pfeifer wrote:
Certif1ed wrote:
The Beatles led the evolution of rock music for 5 years, and to say they were crap musicians is to miss several points, as they (apart from Ringo) certainly weren't crap rock musicians by any stretch of th imagination.
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I am REALLY sick of people calling Ringo a crap musician. I mean, I've only heard his output from his time from the Beatles, and yes, his technique is simplistic, but I think people miss one big thing about him. The biggest thing when you look at Mr. Starr is that he almost always serves the song. If he hadn't played what he did on Come Together, then would it have been as memorable a song as it is? Ringo always had a great ear for serving the song, and no where is it more evident than in their early work. He rarely does any over-technical fill when they were in their popier years, and the sounds fine to my ears. I've never felt or said to myself, "man, I wish Ringo would kick off a nice roll around the set, or throw in some Swiss-Tripelets. If I've ever thought that about anyone, it's Nick Mason, but that's something entirley diferent. As big a fan of highly-skilled playing as I am, especially when it comes to drums, Ringo will always be the godfather of the "Less is More" style of drumming, and he managed to do it in one of the bigest bands in the history of Rock music. That I applaud him for.
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I believe he is also known for being the "human metronome". Never off the beat, never. |
i totally agree - in the liverpool "cavern" days ringo was a very successful drummer and very sought after, george martin recognised his talent and technical skill and that was how he ended up in the beatles, he just thought pete best wasn't good enough.
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Prog Archives Tour Van
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magoo
Forum Newbie
Joined: April 27 2006
Status: Offline
Points: 6
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Posted: April 27 2006 at 16:57 |
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Fantomas .... your sig fkn rules .. hahahahahah
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Certif1ed
Special Collaborator
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Joined: April 08 2004
Location: England
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Points: 7559
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Posted: May 02 2006 at 17:30 |
Fantômas wrote:
Claypool isn't average... You may don't like him, that's perfectly
acceptable... But, at least, admit that he is not normal, and his bass
sounds like no other.
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He sounds pretty average to me, dude.
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The important thing is not to stop questioning.
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Certif1ed
Special Collaborator
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Joined: April 08 2004
Location: England
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Posted: May 02 2006 at 17:30 |
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Ooops, dupe!
Edited by Certif1ed - May 02 2006 at 17:30
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The important thing is not to stop questioning.
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darren
Forum Senior Member
Joined: October 31 2005
Location: Canada
Status: Offline
Points: 452
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Posted: May 03 2006 at 02:08 |
They set the groundwork for prog by breaking out of the rock and roll boundaries of the time. I also say as much was George Martin as it was the others.
From the stuff I read, a lot of what George Martin did was just to keep Lennon and MacCartney happy. Lennon never liked his voice and always pushed for different effects. MacCartney had a habit of hearing a sound and wanting it in a song, like the piccolo trumpet in "Penny Lane". Both kept on about how they wanted to hear something different. It was Martin that had the idea to use take a steam calliope tape, cut into small lengths, mixed up and spliced back together in random order for "Being For The Benefit Of Mr. Kite". (or was it "Strawberry Fields"?)
The Beatles, although not prog in the true sense, should be in these archives simply for setting the groundwork.
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"they locked up a man who wanted to rule the world.
the fools
they locked up the wrong man."
- Leonard Cohen
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earlyprog
Collaborator
Neo / PSIKE / Heavy Teams
Joined: March 05 2006
Location: .
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Points: 2133
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Posted: May 03 2006 at 09:43 |
Zero the hero wrote:
Just one thing,even though Lennon & McCartney were probably the greatest song writers ever,they,together with George & ringo were crap musicians...Everything is owed to George Martin,without him they would have not been the great sussess they ended up as.
George Martin was the man behind every technique,he judged the way the album was to be produced,the way the effects were to be used,even the one who encouraged them to use Moog & Hammond.
For the time he pushed the studio as a recreational area as far forward as possible... |
McCartney a crap bassist?! one of the best around at least in the 60's and 70's. All the music polls at the time attest to that.
Harrison a crap guitarist?! Very unique and can always to be spotted like the best guitarists.
George Martin was the man?! The Beatles came up with most of the ideas for use of new instruments and recording techniques. They also suggested the recording technique used on Sgt Pepper.
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earlyprog
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Posted: May 04 2006 at 15:42 |
Don't forget that proto-prog is the new technology that evolved in the 60's covering everything from novel ideas/philosophy (such as the concept album, long tunes, tunes interconnected without intermissions, mixing of styles, addition of new instruments, sound effects), over novel techniques (new instruments, recording technology) to the final product: the prog tune.
The Beatles made huge contributions to all these elements although they never really fleshed into real prog tunes (except perhaps for 'A Day In the Life').
Conclusion: The Beatles are undoubtedly proto-prog.
Now, King Crimson was an organisation that bonded all these elements together to form an entire album of prog tunes, not just an album with a few prog tunes like the proto prog bands before them (The Nice never made the fullblown prog album but came very close).
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The Beatles invented Prog Rock - discuss