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Moogtron III View Drop Down

Prog Reviewer

Joined: April 26 2005
Location: Belgium
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Posted: July 15 2005 at 08:15

I'll surely buy. Sounds great!

Wrath_of_Ninian View Drop Down

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Joined: December 04 2004
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Posted: July 15 2005 at 11:14

Q&Mojo wrote:

Wrath_of_Ninian wrote:

Call me cynical, but the timing of
this issue, just days after Floyd's Live 8 reunion, seems
like quite a cunning marketing ploy.
Does anyone at Q actually care about these prog bands, or
was someone up top thinking about shifting a few extra units on
the back of Live 8?

Walk into any record shop last week and you'd be greeted
with (quite literally) a 'wall' of Pink Floyd CDs & DVDs,
with the Live 8 logo emblazened behind it. Tell us, why did Q
choose this week to launch its (probably only) prog-rock
special?? U2 and the Beatles getting overkill elsewhere
perhaps? Can Robbie not shift the units anymore?

I suspect another tongue-in-cheek review of the genre, and
the media-starved prog herds will all rush out and buy it,
for that snippet of Gabriel saying how ridiculous it all was at the
time....

From the top then: the Floyd/Live 8 thing was a happy accident.
To put a 148-page magazine together - commissioning,
sourcing pictures, interviewing musicians etc - takes longer
than the lead-in time between Floyd announcing their decision
to play Live 8 and the magazine going to press. I'd love to tell
you that we have some sort of hotline to the prog stars, but the
first we knew about Floyd at Live 8 was when we read about it
on the electric internet. But, yes, I'm pleased we put Floyd as
the main cover image. Commercially, it would make sense.

Does anyone at Q actually care about these prog bands?
In a word: yes. You cannot produce a magazine about any
genre of music without using writers that have an
understanding and a genuine interest in this stuff. If you do, you
will come unstuck very quickly.

U2 and the Beatles getting overkill elsewhere perhaps?
Not this week, but, hey, give it time.

Can Robbie not shift the units anymore?
No idea. I don't think he's doing much at the moment, apart
from counting his money.

suspect another tongue-in-cheek review of the genre, and
the media-starved prog herds will all rush out and buy it,
for that snippet of Gabriel saying how ridiculous it all was at the
time....
Unfortunately Gabriel wasn't available. Hope this answers your
questions, though.

A fair retort...upon reflection, it matters not whether you are cynically exploiting Live 8, as it is your right as a profit-making company operating within a free market to do so, and lets face it, almost every other branch of the music industry has done likewise. I read somewhere that Pink Floyd are actually donating a large percentage of post-Live 8 album sale profits to the charity thus negating any cycnical accusations of maximising their own profits. I've not had this verified though, and perhaps you know more.

I suppose I should appreciate the fact (and I expected you to respond along these lines), that you are providing a potential opening for would-be prog fans through the comfortable 'Pink Floyd door'. As virtual music and fashion lepers, us prog herds should probably be grateful for such an endorsement. However, I shall investigate the magazine in the usual way (standing in the Union shop) before committing! I should also admit that previous tongue-in-cheek takes on prog(such as the brilliant Top Ten on Channel 4), have made me laugh out loud. If your magazine gets anywhere near that level, I shall probably succumb....

"Now all the seasons run together, and the middle days are gone..."

Q&Mojo

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Joined: July 21 2004
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Posted: July 15 2005 at 11:47

A fair retort...upon reflection, it matters not
whether you are cynically exploiting Live 8, as it is your right as
a profit-making company operating within a free market to do
so, and lets face it, almost every other branch of the music
industry has done likewise.
I read somewhere that Pink Floyd are actually donating a large
percentage of post-Live 8 album sale profits to the charity thus
negating any cycnical accusations of maximising their own
profits. I've not had this verified though, and perhaps you
know more.

I read this as well. On the internet, of course. Which is where
magazines get most of their information these days

I suppose I should appreciate the fact (and I expected you to
respond along these lines), that you are providing a potential
opening for would-be prog fans through the comfortable 'Pink
Floyd door'.

Damn, I forgot to play that trump card. But, yes, think of Floyd
as a friendly Trojan Horse, smuggling the unholy likes of Gentle
Giant, Amon Duul II and Soft Machine into the homes of
unsuspecting readers.

As virtual music and fashion lepers, us prog herds should
probably be grateful for such an endorsement. However,
I shall investigate the magazine in the usual way (standing in
the Union shop) before committing!

The way most people will sample it, I expect. Though, be
warned, much like the music itself, the articles go on forever.

I should also admit that previous tongue-in-cheek takes on
prog (such as the brilliant Top Ten on Channel 4), have made
me laugh out loud. If your magazine gets anywhere near that
level, I shall probably succumb....

[/QUOTE]

True, our tongues are never far from our cheeks and we are
not afraid to raise an eyebrow at some of the more excessive
aspects of the genre, but there is a genuine love and
appreciation of the music to be found in this mag. Honest!
If you do succumb - let us know what you think. Good or bad.[/B

Wrath_of_Ninian View Drop Down

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Posted: July 15 2005 at 20:11

I'm sure there is genuine love and appreciation, and your diplomacy is admirable!!

Of course, I can only speak for myself, but I relish the pomposity and bombast of Emerson's spinning piano (again - I laugh out loud and show it to people), or the ludicrous moribund existentialism of VDGG - such extravagance is sorely missed from today's bands. I'm 33, and really wish I'd been old enough to witness some of that stuff when it was still original, as I know that the closest contemporary acts will come is getting that talentless vocal lightweight Robbie Williams to fire a firework from his codpiece whilst singing his sycophantic, melody-less factory fodder .

I've decided to buy the magazine if one condition is met - that PFM are mentioned ANYWHERE between the front and back covers. A passing homage, a fleeting reference, an acknowledgement of their indisputable songwriting talent. If they are overlooked, then you really are doing the genre no favours. PFM are effortlessly cool, surprisingly still going, and NOBODY I've played them to, has yet disliked them. If they are in, I shall recover some faith in the popular music press.

Finally, I heard there is no free CD with the magazine. Is this a testament to the fans' collective respect for the genre and respect for their personal collections, which you would imagine as containing all the proposed songs anyway? Was it that you felt such a product would lower your profit margin? Did you have trouble getting the rights to the material? Or did you find that you could actually only fit 2-3 songs on one CD and would actually have to release a 3-CD gatefold special with Roger Dean artwork?

"Now all the seasons run together, and the middle days are gone..."

threefates View Drop Down

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Joined: June 30 2004
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Posted: July 17 2005 at 00:38

Q&Mojo wrote:

threefates wrote:

Is it going to have anything about the
Pink Floyd reunion??

Also... I have a copy of Mojo here from March 2001... a huge
article on ELP about the financial woes of the taking the
orchestra on the road... and it mentions my full name and a
paragraph quote from me... that I don't remember ever giving a
reporter....

hmmmmm...........

No Floyd reunion, as they spoke to us before Gilmour agreed to
Live8. Actually, I saw that quote from you in the original ELP
piece as well! No idea where that came from

You're
getting a free copy, though, so, come on, no complaining

I wasn't complaining about my quote.. just curious... and how come it got left out of this article? ( Now I'm complaining)....

THIS IS ELP

Tarkustra

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Posted: July 17 2005 at 00:41

Actually did you guys at Mojo ever consider doing an article on Linda and her prog journeys. How many women do you know spent that much time around prog bands? Or how many women do you know would have wanted to?

When you speak, is it you that hears? Are your ears full? You can't hear anything at all.

Q&Mojo

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Posted: July 18 2005 at 04:30

Tarkustra wrote:

Actually did you guys at Mojo ever
consider doing an article on Linda and her prog journeys.
How many women do you know spent that much time around
prog bands? Or how many women do you know would have
wanted to?

Actually, yes, I did think about it. But I was too much of a
gentleman to ask a lady about her "prog journeys".

Wrath_of_Ninian View Drop Down

Forum Senior Member

Joined: December 04 2004
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Posted: July 18 2005 at 11:20

The Union Shop at Nottingham University haven't got Q. I'll now have to buy it from a reputable retailer, instead of reading the whole thing over days by standing in the shop.

I think you should have a word with them...its totally unacceptable, considering the pile of utter dross taking up the rest of the shelf space.

They DO have Mojo - but nothing about prog on the front, just the usual fodder about Page, Beck, Hendrix' musical toenails. Is it possible that the new Q has not reached us here yet??? I thought it was out July 15?

"Now all the seasons run together, and the middle days are gone..."

Snow Dog

Special Collaborator

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Posted: July 18 2005 at 12:27

Ive seen it here in Cardiff

Q&Mojo

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Joined: July 21 2004
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Points: 33

Posted: July 18 2005 at 12:34

Wrath_of_Ninian wrote:

The Union Shop at Nottingham University haven't got Q. I'll
now have to buy it from a reputable retailer, instead of
reading the whole thing over days by standing in the
shop.

I think you should have a word with them...its totally
unacceptable, considering the pile of utter dross taking up the
rest of the shelf space.

They DO have Mojo - but nothing about prog on the front, just
the usual fodder about Page, Beck, Hendrix' musical toenails.
Is it possible that the new Q has not reached us here yet???
I thought it was out July 15?

Don't forget, it's not a regular issue of Q or Mojo, it's a special
edition, so they may not stock it. Get yourself over to WH Smiths
or somewhere like that. They'll have it. What's a good album to
start with on PFM? I've managed to avoid them all these years.

Snow Dog

Special Collaborator

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Joined: March 23 2005
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Posted: July 18 2005 at 12:45

Q&Mojo wrote:

Wrath_of_Ninian wrote:

The Union Shop at Nottingham University haven't got Q. I'll
now have to buy it from a reputable retailer, instead of
reading the whole thing over days by standing in the
shop.

I think you should have a word with them...its totally
unacceptable, considering the pile of utter dross taking up the
rest of the shelf space.

They DO have Mojo - but nothing about prog on the front, just
the usual fodder about Page, Beck, Hendrix' musical toenails.
Is it possible that the new Q has not reached us here yet???
I thought it was out July 15?

Do you want English lyrics or Italian or not bothered?

Wrath_of_Ninian View Drop Down

Forum Senior Member

Joined: December 04 2004
Location: Scotland
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Points: 230

Posted: July 18 2005 at 15:04

Q&Mojo wrote:

Wrath_of_Ninian wrote:

The Union Shop at Nottingham University haven't got Q. I'll
now have to buy it from a reputable retailer, instead of
reading the whole thing over days by standing in the
shop.

I think you should have a word with them...its totally
unacceptable, considering the pile of utter dross taking up the
rest of the shelf space.

They DO have Mojo - but nothing about prog on the front, just
the usual fodder about Page, Beck, Hendrix' musical toenails.
Is it possible that the new Q has not reached us here yet???
I thought it was out July 15?

I found it in WHS, and took a chance after a brief glimpse through it.

I have to say I've been impressed with what I've seen so far - plenty of juicy stories, interesting facts, dubious recommendations ( ), all done in a sympathetic tone, although as expected we had the Gabriel shot with his self-mocking quote. Nonetheless, I shall enjoy pottering through it.

I'll post a more in-depth review once I've dissected it a bit more.

Of course, my initial fumble through it revealed no mention of PFM, and they didn't make the top 40 cosmic mind-blower albums, whereas the decidedly average Land Of Grey & Pink managed No.19. SUrely its not THAT good? Misplaced Childhood at No.17 - again... Expect no plaudits from this site for putting Lamb Lies Down on Broadway BENEATH RAdiohead's mediocre OK Computer (they hit far greater prog heights with Kid A and Amnesiac) and as for Dark Side Of The Moon at No.1 - perhaps a huge selling populist melodic rock album, but hardly the cream of our genre......

Each to their own....

PFM - their entire back catalogue from 1972 (Storia Di Un Minuto, Per Un Amico/Photos of Ghosts), through to 1977 (Chocolate Kings & Jet Lag) you cannot find a bad album. Later than this, you cannot find a good album...unless its the recent live reworkings of the old stuff. Chocolate Kings was the pinnacle for me, but most PFM fans prefer the earlier work - a lot more pastoral, and without Lanzetti's Gabriel-esque love-it-or-hate-it voice. If I had to choose one album for you to listen to, it would be Chocolate Kings - massively overlooked/underrated, and would blow at least 39 of the most cosmic mind..etc albums out of the water.

You'll soon see what I mean...

"Now all the seasons run together, and the middle days are gone..."

sdavmor

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Joined: August 08 2005
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Posted: August 08 2005 at 13:50

I received my copy over the weeked courtesy of my cousin David's recent visit to France. Not bad at all, as long as one accepts its focus and built-in shortcomings. Other than Rush it presents progrock as a UK phenomenon. Which is true to the extent that the Europroggers (etc) never achieved the kind of market penetration that the "Big 6" of UK prog managed. Though how Kansas failed to make the cut is mystifying, at least on the basis of their output and chart-topping sales. They were certainly prog up through "Monolith". Still, these are minor quibbles, given that this isn't a preaching-to-the-choir publication. The special issue is a very solid piece of work, with only a handful or readily identifiable factual errors. I can well imagine someone who owned LPs by these bands back in the day, or someone that is a fan of modern rock that is trying to embrace the spirit of progressive rock, finding this highly educational and a source of albums to go buy on CD. The list of 40 cosmic rock albums to blow your mind is a decent starting place, and manages to touch many important bases. Everyone of those records is worth having in any adventurous music collection, but there's many just as vital that didn't make the cut. And, it also manages to miss the boat on at least the major Italian and French proggers, and only hits a couple of better known Krautrockers. i.e. no PFM, Banco. Le Orme, Pulsar, Magma, Can, just to mention 6 superb groups. Lest I appear to be nitpicking I'd finally like to say that this is worth having for the coverage of my favourite headcase spacerockers Hawkwind. That is a freaking hysterical read! Thanks guys. Do it again sometime.

Edited by sdavmor

SDM -- a 21st century schizoid man
www.systemstheory.net internet music project
www.soundclick.com/systemstheory
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Buy "Soundtracks For Imaginary Movies" online

sdavmor

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Posted: August 08 2005 at 14:43

Starting with PFM? Unless you're already hip to the native-language efforts of Banco, Le Orme, Maxophone, etc., (...and some people simply don't want to listen to rock of any style that is not in English...) probably your best bet will be to pick up the pair of English-language albums done under the guiding hand of the ELP/Sinfield axis. Get "Photos Of Ghosts" and "The World Became The World". If you dig them, get the two follow-ups with Lanzotti (a Peter Gabriel meets Roger Chapman vocalist). "Chocolate Kings" and "Jet Lag" are very fine records. Then go back and try the three original Italian-language albums from which "POG" and "TWBTW" were assembled. Then very carefully work forward if you are still interested in exploring further. (I own everything by PFM, including the 80s crap

and the 90s reformation albums.). After "Passpartu" (sort of Strawbs-ish in a Mediterranean sunbaked way) there's nothing that is essential, and there's over 700 Italian prog albums from the 70s that you could spend $ on and get more out of (assuming that you can find them, that is). Having said that, the 2002 live DVD is a must see and the 90s reformation albums are quality neo-prog/larger than life symphonic AOR. If you get the chane to see PFM in concert, do it. They are stunning, still blessed with their chops and vocals.

SDM -- a 21st century schizoid man
www.systemstheory.net internet music project
www.soundclick.com/systemstheory
www.cdbaby.com/systemstheory
Buy "Soundtracks For Imaginary Movies" online

sdavmor

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Posted: August 08 2005 at 15:00

Mr. Q&Mojo.

There's been a couple of threads about this special issue over at another large progressive rock forum (2500+ members, 400+ regular posters). If inclined, drop by and wade in at www.progressivears.com

SDM -- a 21st century schizoid man
www.systemstheory.net internet music project
www.soundclick.com/systemstheory
www.cdbaby.com/systemstheory
Buy "Soundtracks For Imaginary Movies" online

bad1

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Posted: August 10 2005 at 08:42

I enjoyed most of the Mojo/Q prog issue - and have recommended it to a lot of people.

At the same time I have some issues with the IMO a bit too condescending attitudes towards bands like ELP and Yes...

Another symptom of what today's music magazines believe is needed to keep their critical cred?

Edited by bad1

Fallacies do not cease to be fallacies because they become fashions.
G.K. Chesterton

bad1

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Posted: August 10 2005 at 08:57

Hello Q&Mojo!

Just noticed you saying that

Q&Mojo wrote:

to the best of my knowledge Q has
never received "numerous complaints" about its treatment of
prog rock bands. I've worked there for eight years and don't
recall receiving any. Sorry. I would have remembered.

As I have both sent and have gotten published with critical comments on Q's treatment of prog, I think you should check again

Here are three examples:

---------------------------- Start of my Q mail quotes ---------------------------

-----Original message 1-----

Sent: 28. juni 2001 09:51

To: '[email protected]'

Subject: Prog and Prejudice in Q 178

I have to admit I'm rather puzzled by your review of the book on Emerson, Lake and Palmer. For some peculiar reason it seems more focused on the reviewers feelings about the "demented" music of ELP, than on the book. Perhaps the strangest thing about the review is that it overlooks that the book is rather innovative and illuminating, for at least two reasons. For once we get someone to write a history of a band and daring as well really to analyse their music, which of couse may seem a rare treat to a music magazine. And in a time when digital sampling abound, its extremely valuable to get insight in the dire and dangerous period of analogue synths - and perhaps understand some of Keith Emerson's project.

Unfortunately as it seems, the authors of "Welcome Back to the Show That Never Ends" are more concerned with chords and creativity, than with the beers and beat angle which rides other rock books like a mare. Though, as you mentioned, there are sufficient such in the book for the connoiseurs.

In short I can't quite fathom why music journalists 25 years after "Anarchy in the UK" still seems to provide the slam that never ends. Its an endeless enigma why critics don't dare to drop the automatic abuse reflexes when seeing the letters E, L and P - especially in the age of Radiohead, Muse and Tool.

> -----Original message 2-----

Sent: 12. april 2003 17:20

To: '[email protected]'

Copy: '[email protected]'

Subject: The Church of Q

Reading the latest Q Magazine made me realise that you're in a religious war. For once your ritual carpet bombing of Yes in the review section made sense. For this is about attacking the Axis of Evil, clearly defined as Yes, ELP and all their being.

The main crime seems to be making the hideous heresies of "emotionless" and "flashy" music, both terms for some peculiar reason undefined by Your reviewer. In addition, they have weird lyrics. Fortunately the religious fervor slips to the surface in the reviewer's prayer against Yes at the end. This made me at last understand what's afoot here.

And it also finally explains why no other musical genre receives that kind of treatment. Q manages admirably to maintain some kind of neutrality in writing on Glam rock, C&W and even Britney Spears. However, twenty five years after the Punk period, you're still launching the bombers whenever 70's prog rears its head. The inquistors of Q will of course never rest until the heresy is routed out. Any idea of musical pluralism and tolerance seems decades ahead.

Hopefully, readers bored by this may in the meantime still be allowed to enjoy the incomprehensible bliss of Yes music.

-----Original message 3----

Sent: 28. februar 2004 14:04

To: '[email protected]'

Subject: Q-less critique

I'm not quite sure what dark childhood shiverings make your reviewer Peter Kane insist that Emerson, Lake and Palmers are "still genuine contenders for the worst band ever". While doubtlessly great fun to read for all stuck in the punk ideology of 1976, to the rest of us it proves once and for all an admirable ability to select queless reviewers, which is a bit strange in Q.

With his critical delusions, loopy sixth form comments and verbal pomposity, Peter Kane is the supreme example of where rock critics went wrong in the mid '70s. Good to know, then, he sound as ludicrous as ever on this eccentrically compiled review doing horrible things to a creative band like ELP, as well as jokey misfires on our brains.

Next time Q reviews a progressive band, please use a reviewer who at least seems to understand what he is talking about.

- - - - - -

P.S. A personal note, as I (a fan of "pompous" bands like Mars Volta, Radiohead and Tool) am not able to fathom what this negativity really is about, and to follow up an earlier letter of mine (se below): Why do Q keep up some kind of war against "prog and pomposity"? Its impossible to avoid the strong feeling that this is about a lot more than "taste", and touches the museopolitical.

Speaking of pomposity and ludricous lyrics, it would be far wiser to go for Tom Jones, Gary Glitter, Queen, or even major parts of David Bowie's work. The same goes for about 80 % of every musical genre, except "metal" bands, where 97 % is ludricous, like Norway's own Dimmu Borgir and Turboneger. Still these tend to get rather raving reviews, or at least no systematic slamming.

Peace and love, please.

Regards

---------------------------- End of my Q mail quotes ---------------------------

OK, no offense meant - just putting the record a bit straigthter

Fallacies do not cease to be fallacies because they become fashions.
G.K. Chesterton

Q&Mojo

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Posted: August 22 2005 at 11:46

sdavmor wrote:

Mr. Q&Mojo.

There's been a couple of threads about this special issue
over at another large progressive rock forum (2500+ members,
400+ regular posters). If inclined, drop by and wade in at
[URL=http://www.progressivears.com]www.progressivears.com[
/URL]

Just had a look, but you gave the wrong url in your post.

sdavmor

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Location: United States
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Posted: August 22 2005 at 14:53

Hi Mr. Q&Mojo. Go to www.progressiveears.com. Create an ID. Go to Other Topics Forum. There's a three page thread there currently active called "Mojo's Prog Special magazine".

SDM -- a 21st century schizoid man
www.systemstheory.net internet music project
www.soundclick.com/systemstheory
www.cdbaby.com/systemstheory
Buy "Soundtracks For Imaginary Movies" online