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Anonymous2112 View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 02 2005 at 14:23

Also there is a diffrence between cults and religons.

Religons - Says if you do good things when you die, something good will happen to you.

Cults - Offers something good when you die, for doing sadistic things like cutting off your sex organs then eating them, then drink tropical punch with syanide in it, then aliens will come get you and take to a uber heaven planet called Geldloks 4.

So you can see the diffrence is that Religons are full of semi-crazys and Cults are full of out and out nut jobs.

And The Meek Shall Inherit The Earth
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 02 2005 at 15:03
I'm an agnostic: I don't know if God exists and I don't know if God does NOT exist, that's fine with me  I only know one thing; if there's a heaven, I would like the angels to play "Tales..." with Jesus on guitar and God himself on lead-vocals
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 02 2005 at 15:22
Originally posted by Fearless Fearless wrote:

Originally posted by JrKASperov JrKASperov wrote:

I would like to post this as a sort of indirect response to all the religion based replies here.

I'm no fan of religion myself, being based on rules (or dogma) instead of faith, it is an enemy of what Yahshua stood for. But I am a man of faith myself. And that goes beyond most people even know or think to know about Christianity. As I found out going to university there was a whole world with knowledge i hadn't even thought about, it is most likely the same for most of you atheist people or people who just post 'church sucks'. There is a world of knowledge about Christianity that is still closed to you. Don't let yourself be fooled by institutions that claim to be Christian, if in fact they ignore obvious parts of the book they are supposed to be teaching about.

 My main point is, most of you don't know anything about it, but are all too ready to judge it by it's cover. I beg you, please, if you want to judge it, read the contents.

Well said JrKASperov.  I am suprised that noone has responded to this so far, they have just gone on doing what they were before: Ignorantly bashing religion.  I am not a fan of religion either, but faith is a big part of my life, along with music, I think both are very spiritual in some ways.  And Christianity shouldn't be judged by the circus religions that get pushed into the public eye.  There are some very good people out there, when I quit going to church, the other members were very supportive and didn't judge me, but tryed to help and offered their friendship as I was going through a rough time in life. 

Anyway, if one is truely going to speak out against religion, they should at least know enough about it to make an argument........just like you can't flame a band whom you've never listened to before.  So my friends, I encourage you to read the bible or whatever else to gain knowledge, and if you still feel the same way-- feel free to fire away.  Sorry to sound preachy, etc., I don't entend to come off that way.

I didn't respond because I find this kind of threads a bit useless. Faith is a big part of my life too, and I don't feel attracted to "circus religions" either. I like the Circus Of Heaven (Yes), but that's something else

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 02 2005 at 15:46

I see most top members here are atheists  Thats very promising



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Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 02 2005 at 16:39

Quote: Church sucks be cool, be an atheist

AMEN!!!

Arguing on the internet is a lot like the special olympics - even if you win, you're still retarded.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 02 2005 at 17:32
Because priests never bust out 10 minute guitar solos. 
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 02 2005 at 17:43
Originally posted by spectral spectral wrote:

Originally posted by Fearless Fearless wrote:

JrKASperov.  I am suprised that noone has responded to this so far, they have just gone on doing what they were before: Ignorantly bashing religion.  I am not a fan of religion either, but faith is a big part of my life, along with music, I think both are very spiritual in some ways.  And Christianity shouldn't be judged by the circus religions that get pushed into the public eye.  There are some very good people out there, when I quit going to church, the other members were very supportive and didn't judge me, but tryed to help and offered their friendship as I was going through a rough time in life. 

Anyway, if one is truely going to speak out against religion, they should at least know enough about it to make an argument........just like you can't flame a band whom you've never listened to before.  So my friends, I encourage you to read the bible or whatever else to gain knowledge, and if you still feel the same way-- feel free to fire away.  Sorry to sound preachy, etc., I don't entend to come off that way.

I read the bible.  Then I went to church to my niece's baptism.  I then realised, while sitting in the church, what an utter load of bullsh1t it all is.  The fact that it is essentially an overblown cult telling you how to live your life and ultimately dictating what is supposed to be right and wrong.  I'm now vehemently opposed to the church and organised religion of any kind.  I think it is cool to be spiritual in your own home, but to follow the doctrine of a church; there is something wrong with that.  There are certain fundamental aspects that religion teaches people which are very wrong - namely intolerance of other people.  From my experience with religion it is insanely hypocritical and intolerant of other people.  Homosexuality, bad.  Abortion, bad.  Condoms, bad.  etc. etc.  the list goes on ad infinitum.  I can't stomach the church/religion.  I can't stomach that a lot of the problems in this world seem to generate from religion, whether it be the extremist factions or not, it still exacerbates problems that could be dealt with better without religion.  Iraq, islamic terrorists, israel/palestine, northern ireland - all these are directly linked to religion.  Hence, religion should be avoided if we want to live in a tolerant and just society.

 

 

This is essentially the same reason that I quit going to church.  And like I said, if you have gone, and understand everything then you have the right to speak out as much as you want.

Initially, I wasn't going to respond, but i've just seen a lot of ignorance on this thread......The main reason many of us listen to prog instead of pop crap is because we don't succumb to the conformities of society, and then I see people here post that they like music over religion because it is "cooler".......well my friends, this is the mindset of a conformist.  If you listen to music (or go to church, etc..) because it is cool/or to fit in, then you are surely doing it for the wrong reason.

BTW, Spectral, I think you may be generalizing ALL religion from the one church that you went to.  It's important to know that not all of them are the same.  And as for abortion, homosexuality, etc., that's all just a matter of morals or opinions. 



Edited by Fearless
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 02 2005 at 19:21

Originally posted by JrKASperov JrKASperov wrote:

 My main point is, most of you don't know anything about it, but are all too ready to judge it by it's cover. I beg you, please, if you want to judge it, read the contents.

Well, regarding the Bible (old testiment) I can quote you some seriously evil sh*t that supposedly 'god' said but this really isn't the place for such a discussion.

 

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 03 2005 at 04:02
Originally posted by Fearless Fearless wrote:

Originally posted by spectral spectral wrote:

Originally posted by Fearless Fearless wrote:

JrKASperov.  I am suprised that noone has responded to this so far, they have just gone on doing what they were before: Ignorantly bashing religion.  I am not a fan of religion either, but faith is a big part of my life, along with music, I think both are very spiritual in some ways.  And Christianity shouldn't be judged by the circus religions that get pushed into the public eye.  There are some very good people out there, when I quit going to church, the other members were very supportive and didn't judge me, but tryed to help and offered their friendship as I was going through a rough time in life. 

Anyway, if one is truely going to speak out against religion, they should at least know enough about it to make an argument........just like you can't flame a band whom you've never listened to before.  So my friends, I encourage you to read the bible or whatever else to gain knowledge, and if you still feel the same way-- feel free to fire away.  Sorry to sound preachy, etc., I don't entend to come off that way.

I read the bible.  Then I went to church to my niece's baptism.  I then realised, while sitting in the church, what an utter load of bullsh1t it all is.  The fact that it is essentially an overblown cult telling you how to live your life and ultimately dictating what is supposed to be right and wrong.  I'm now vehemently opposed to the church and organised religion of any kind.  I think it is cool to be spiritual in your own home, but to follow the doctrine of a church; there is something wrong with that.  There are certain fundamental aspects that religion teaches people which are very wrong - namely intolerance of other people.  From my experience with religion it is insanely hypocritical and intolerant of other people.  Homosexuality, bad.  Abortion, bad.  Condoms, bad.  etc. etc.  the list goes on ad infinitum.  I can't stomach the church/religion.  I can't stomach that a lot of the problems in this world seem to generate from religion, whether it be the extremist factions or not, it still exacerbates problems that could be dealt with better without religion.  Iraq, islamic terrorists, israel/palestine, northern ireland - all these are directly linked to religion.  Hence, religion should be avoided if we want to live in a tolerant and just society.

 

 

This is essentially the same reason that I quit going to church.  And like I said, if you have gone, and understand everything then you have the right to speak out as much as you want.

Initially, I wasn't going to respond, but i've just seen a lot of ignorance on this thread......The main reason many of us listen to prog instead of pop crap is because we don't succumb to the conformities of society, and then I see people here post that they like music over religion because it is "cooler".......well my friends, this is the mindset of a conformist.  If you listen to music (or go to church, etc..) because it is cool/or to fit in, then you are surely doing it for the wrong reason.

BTW, Spectral, I think you may be generalizing ALL religion from the one church that you went to.  It's important to know that not all of them are the same.  And as for abortion, homosexuality, etc., that's all just a matter of morals or opinions. 

I was always going to step over that line of generalising.  But from my experience and reading up on various religions, this is the conclusion that I've come to.

 

 

"...misty halos made visible by the spectral illumination of moonshine."
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 03 2005 at 06:41
Originally posted by spectral spectral wrote:

I read the bible.  Then I went to church to my niece's baptism.  I then realised, while sitting in the church, what an utter load of bullsh1t it all is.  The fact that it is essentially an overblown cult telling you how to live your life and ultimately dictating what is supposed to be right and wrong.  I'm now vehemently opposed to the church and organised religion of any kind.  I think it is cool to be spiritual in your own home, but to follow the doctrine of a church; there is something wrong with that.  There are certain fundamental aspects that religion teaches people which are very wrong - namely intolerance of other people.  From my experience with religion it is insanely hypocritical and intolerant of other people.  Homosexuality, bad.  Abortion, bad.  Condoms, bad.  etc. etc.  the list goes on ad infinitum.  I can't stomach the church/religion.  I can't stomach that a lot of the problems in this world seem to generate from religion, whether it be the extremist factions or not, it still exacerbates problems that could be dealt with better without religion.  Iraq, islamic terrorists, israel/palestine, northern ireland - all these are directly linked to religion.  Hence, religion should be avoided if we want to live in a tolerant and just society.

 


Ah but all too happy to ignore the good things religion has done for us.

Religion has founded universities and claims a vital role in the rich scientific tradition of the western world.
Religion has founded fundamental things like charity, social security.
Religion has kept numerous volumes of ancient texts preserved, to be read by us in the present world.

To add to that, you're mainly posting about the Catholic Church. In fact, Yahshua promotes TOLERANCE of other people. I'm not sure if you read your evangelics right, because it sounds to me you are ignoring the basic teaching of Yahshua himself and blaming Him for the wrongdoings of 'His' selfproclaimed followers. In our tradition it isn't the cult that teaches us what is wrong or right, it's God Himself, personally, every moment of the day if we take the effort to listen to Him.

And to the person who quoted something about 'evil' deeds: I would like to see what you would do in the face of people sh*tting in your face, kicking against your knees, blaspheming your name etc.etc. Because that is essentially what those victims of Gods (indeed terrible) wrath did to Him.

Epic.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 03 2005 at 06:58
Originally posted by transend transend wrote:

Music is real,  religion is a figment of peoples imagination..


Thank you for that sweeping statement. Let me pass that on to the victims of the London Bombings.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 03 2005 at 07:20
Originally posted by JrKASperov JrKASperov wrote:


Ah but all too happy to ignore the good things religion has done for us.

Religion has founded universities and claims a vital role in the rich scientific tradition of the western world.
Religion has founded fundamental things like charity, social security.
Religion has kept numerous volumes of ancient texts preserved, to be read by us in the present world.

To add to that, you're mainly posting about the Catholic Church. In fact, Yahshua promotes TOLERANCE of other people. I'm not sure if you read your evangelics right, because it sounds to me you are ignoring the basic teaching of Yahshua himself and blaming Him for the wrongdoings of 'His' selfproclaimed followers. In our tradition it isn't the cult that teaches us what is wrong or right, it's God Himself, personally, every moment of the day if we take the effort to listen to Him.

And to the person who quoted something about 'evil' deeds: I would like to see what you would do in the face of people sh*tting in your face, kicking against your knees, blaspheming your name etc.etc. Because that is essentially what those victims of Gods (indeed terrible) wrath did to Him.

I struggle with all religions.  I like the idea of personal spirituality, I think this can be important.  but the idea of following the doctrine(s) of any religion just doesn't sit easy with me.  I'm sure religion has done a lot of good things, but it has also done a lot of damage too (and continues to).  The current problems in the world can be traced back to religion.  Whether it be various wars or acts of terrorism or even starvation and genocide in africa due to opposing religions and beliefs.  For me, and this is my opinion, religion has little or no place in modern society.  I think we are at a particular place in time where we are intelligent enough and have the ability to care and empathise that we don't need a church, we don't need a figurehead of a church or scriptures written thousands of years ago to form the fundamental basis of how we live in the 21st Century.  That's not to say we can't learn from the past.  As Santayana once said, "those who do not learn from the past are condemned to relive it."  We can learn from the positive and negative effects of religion to create a just society, without the need for organised religion.

"...misty halos made visible by the spectral illumination of moonshine."
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 03 2005 at 07:22

 

 

    I for one think that spirituality is good and appreceate most religions although I have a favorite. Because obviously we are not these bodies which are ever changing but the sense of Iness remains the same. So I want to know about the soul and am interested in associating with others who are interested in soul and spirituality just like I come here to associate on prog

How wonderful to be so profound
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 03 2005 at 08:25
Originally posted by Anonymous2112 Anonymous2112 wrote:

Originally posted by The Miracle The Miracle wrote:

Originally posted by Anonymous2112 Anonymous2112 wrote:

f**k school. eh, im hesitant to say f**k church, so i wont. to late.

I never wrote what I have written above.

If you have children do not expose them to weed.

Church sucks be cool, be an atheist

Thats a relief. I'm glad that everyone here arent jesus freaks.

I am a jesus freak, and I'm proud of it

If you're relieved by the number of atheists in this forum Anonymous, you probably have to change your signature, because it's a Bible quote!

Have a lot to say, but I don't think progarchives is the place to exalt or bash religion. I am not a missionary either. My signature just (partly) reveals the way I look at life, and I intentionally chose it as a Bible quote. Please stop this nonsense, and discuss your pretty ideas against religion in yahoo groups etc.

BTW, music means more to me than school or church, too! Just because I'm a devout Christian, it doesn't mean I should stand for all the nonsense the church (or my church, to be more specific) imposes...

Listen to Turkish psych/prog; you won't regret:
Baris Manco,Erkin Koray,Cem Karaca,Mogollar,3 Hürel,Selda,Edip Akbayram,Fikret Kizilok,Ersen (and Dadaslar) (but stick with the '70's, and 'early 80's!)
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 03 2005 at 10:12

Originally posted by con safo con safo wrote:

Because priests never bust out 10 minute guitar solos. 

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 03 2005 at 10:47
The good thing about the various Christian churches is the fact that they
have given rise to some GREAT MUSIC with HEAVENLY CHOIRS and HUGE
ORGANS!Without the Church of England, progrock would never have
existed! ;) Just listen to the hymn-influences apparent in the playing of
Hugh Banton, Tony Banks, Emerson, Wakeman...

More seriously: whenever people get together and lay down the law for all
others to obey, with the ultimate aim of promoting a system that serves
their own (i.e. the rulemakers') purposes, the end result is always bad.
This applies to school, religion and the music industry! However, that
doesn't mean all spirituality, education or music sucks by definition...
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 05 2005 at 20:29

You can usually tell the 'Jesus freaks' on this forum.
 
Often they are the ones who are trying to convey a tolerant attitude towards a topic
and conduct a civilised thread, whereas some of the 'non Jesus freaks'
wish to turn it into a flame war or simple attack a person for
presenting a post that disagrees with them.

In the end, our own conduct conveys the essence
of all of our faiths, including those who declare themselves Atheists.

You are what you eat, applies to the soul as well.
Eternity
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 05 2005 at 20:53
Originally posted by AtomHeartMother AtomHeartMother wrote:

Originally posted by Snow Dog Snow Dog wrote:

The Mouse?

The one who didn't have a house, and I don't know why but I call him Gerald, he is getting rather old, but still, he's a good mouse.  

Oh...that mouse!

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