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Dan Bobrowski 
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Joined: February 02 2004
Location: United States
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Points: 5243
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 Posted: April 08 2005 at 16:28 |
 Jim Garten wrote:
Lovemaking, however, is a different kettle of fish (  ) - |
Time for Pierre la Douche, no? 
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Posted: April 08 2005 at 16:29 |
In the Old Testament, God was a mean son of a bitch. He makes Hitler look like a high school bully.
In the New Testament. Jesus is just as vicious. He murders people for his own ends, commands his disciples to murder their families, and stone their children if they disobey them. I wish people would actually READ the Bible. There's a lot more to it than a few innocent sounding quotes.
Edited by FuzzyDude
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Hierophant
Forum Senior Member
Joined: March 11 2005
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 651
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Posted: April 09 2005 at 01:58 |
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Personaly, i think premarital sex is a vice.
I think only if you are older and can really say to yourself "i love this person" then it is ok.
But I think the real problem is promiscuity.
To me: promiscuity has contributed to the enormous amount of divorces
and marriage failrures and its only common sense that it contributes to
the ever spreading STD.
Sex is good. But it shouldn't be abused. I don't think something is
"sinful" because God's "almighty wrath will strike down and send you
off to burn in hell" but because it will hurt you or others in some way
shape or form. I don't view christian "rules" as rules, but as a guide. I don't view them as restrictions but as the total opposite - expansion of our hearts and minds.
I was born and raised a "Christian" but never really had faith in God
until a few years ago, i rarely attend church, but my faith is stronger
than ever. Many of you cannot understand this, but i have a personal
relationship with God. You could stand there taking thousands of verses
from the bible all day
and state their contrdictions, but it does not affect my faith.
I am not sure why christians have such a bad name. But I think it has
to do with their experience of religious phonies in real life or in the
media. George Bush constantly uses christianity to justify "his"
actions and i think it is disgusting. I personly have a firey burning
hatred for Bush and all the people who stand behind him. I think he is
giving Christians a bad name, and when people criticize him, other
Christians come to his rescue and say "look Bush is a christian too,
let me defend him".
People have to understand that God dosn't want people to be cowards and
powerless, but the opposite is true. As far as I believe, God wants us
to defend ourselves and fight evil, even if there will be bloodshed. I
can't stand phony preachers - they disgust me, and God warned us not to
trust these type of people.
Im sorry but i just had to rant a little there, because im tired of
people who assume all christians are mindless weak little pansies
because alot of us arn't. I am not for fussing over if "something is a
sin or not" but i am all about standing up for the right thing and
fighting what is plain and blatently evil.
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Posted: April 09 2005 at 02:08 |
Hierophant wrote:
Personaly, i think premarital sex is a vice.
I think only if you are older and can really say to yourself "i love this person" then it is ok.
But I think the real problem is promiscuity.
To me: promiscuity has contributed to the enormous amount of divorces and marriage failrures and its only common sense that it contributes to the ever spreading STD.
Sex is good. But it shouldn't be abused. I don't think something is "sinful" because God's "almighty wrath will strike down and send you off to burn in hell" but because it will hurt you or others in some way shape or form. I don't view christian "rules" as rules, but as a guide. I don't view them as restrictions but as the total opposite - expansion of our hearts and minds.
I was born and raised a "Christian" but never really had faith in God until a few years ago, i rarely attend church, but my faith is stronger than ever. Many of you cannot understand this, but i have a personal relationship with God. You could stand there taking thousands of verses from the bible all day and state their contrdictions, but it does not affect my faith.
I am not sure why christians have such a bad name. But I think it has to do with their experience of religious phonies in real life or in the media. George Bush constantly uses christianity to justify "his" actions and i think it is disgusting. I personly have a firey burning hatred for Bush and all the people who stand behind him. I think he is giving Christians a bad name, and when people criticize him, other Christians come to his rescue and say "look Bush is a christian too, let me defend him".
People have to understand that God dosn't want people to be cowards and powerless, but the opposite is true. As far as I believe, God wants us to defend ourselves and fight evil, even if there will be bloodshed. I can't stand phony preachers - they disgust me, and God warned us not to trust these type of people.
Im sorry but i just had to rant a little there, because im tired of people who assume all christians are mindless weak little pansies because alot of us arn't. I am not for fussing over if "something is a sin or not" but i am all about standing up for the right thing and fighting what is plain and blatently evil.
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Peter
Special Collaborator
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Joined: January 31 2004
Location: Canada
Status: Offline
Points: 9669
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Posted: April 09 2005 at 02:27 |
danbo wrote:
Jim Garten wrote:
Lovemaking, however, is a different kettle of fish ( ) - |
Time for Pierre la Douche, no?
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 !
Rock on, bros! 
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"And, has thou slain the Jabberwock?
Come to my arms, my beamish boy!
O frabjous day! Callooh! Callay!'
He chortled in his joy.
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Peter
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: January 31 2004
Location: Canada
Status: Offline
Points: 9669
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Posted: April 09 2005 at 02:35 |
 Well before, long before, some time before, just before, immediately before, now, during, are you done yet and forever after is the best....
Edited by Peter
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"And, has thou slain the Jabberwock?
Come to my arms, my beamish boy!
O frabjous day! Callooh! Callay!'
He chortled in his joy.
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Velvetclown
Forum Senior Member
Joined: February 13 2004
Status: Offline
Points: 8548
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Posted: April 09 2005 at 11:22 |
Sorry Peter I´ve got a headache 
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maani
Special Collaborator
Founding Moderator
Joined: January 30 2004
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 2632
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Posted: April 09 2005 at 11:48 |
Cert:
As Hierophant infers, there is a difference between being "inspired" (not "spoken to") by God (or the "Holy Spirit") and using God's name, and one's claimed faith, to justify one's actions.
Keep in mind that, with the exception of David, Solomon and the prophets, the men - and, yes, women - who "wrote" the Bible were simply "writers," not "doers." Re the prophets, they were "doers" only in the sense that they actively prophesied. David and Solomon were kings, and were thus "doers" - like George Bush is a president and thus a "doer." However, if you read what David and Solomon wrote, you will find not only that they did not use God - or their "special relationship" with Him - to "justify" their actions, but that they constantly agonized over whether their decisions were "Godly" ones. I see no such "approach" on the part of George Bush, who not only uses his faith to "justify" his actions, but shows little or no "agonizing" over any decision that he ultimately justifies by his faith.
FuzzyDude:
Please support your statement that "Jesus is just as vicious. He murders people for his own ends, commands his disciples to murder their families, and stone their children if they disobey them." I have read the Bible - quite a number of times - and have never found any such passage.
Peace.
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threefates
Forum Senior Member
Joined: June 30 2004
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 4215
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Posted: April 09 2005 at 12:10 |
Hierophant wrote:
Personaly, i think premarital sex is a vice.
I think only if you are older and can really say to yourself "i love this person" then it is ok.
But I think the real problem is promiscuity.
To me: promiscuity has contributed to the enormous amount of divorces and marriage failrures and its only common sense that it contributes to the ever spreading STD.
Sex is good. But it shouldn't be abused. I don't think something is "sinful" because God's "almighty wrath will strike down and send you off to burn in hell" but because it will hurt you or others in some way shape or form. I don't view christian "rules" as rules, but as a guide. I don't view them as restrictions but as the total opposite - expansion of our hearts and minds.
I was born and raised a "Christian" but never really had faith in God until a few years ago, i rarely attend church, but my faith is stronger than ever. Many of you cannot understand this, but i have a personal relationship with God. You could stand there taking thousands of verses from the bible all day and state their contrdictions, but it does not affect my faith.
I am not sure why christians have such a bad name. But I think it has to do with their experience of religious phonies in real life or in the media. George Bush constantly uses christianity to justify "his" actions and i think it is disgusting. I personly have a firey burning hatred for Bush and all the people who stand behind him. I think he is giving Christians a bad name, and when people criticize him, other Christians come to his rescue and say "look Bush is a christian too, let me defend him".
People have to understand that God dosn't want people to be cowards and powerless, but the opposite is true. As far as I believe, God wants us to defend ourselves and fight evil, even if there will be bloodshed. I can't stand phony preachers - they disgust me, and God warned us not to trust these type of people.
Im sorry but i just had to rant a little there, because im tired of people who assume all christians are mindless weak little pansies because alot of us arn't. I am not for fussing over if "something is a sin or not" but i am all about standing up for the right thing and fighting what is plain and blatently evil.
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Oh no!!! Another middle of the road Christian!!! 
Don't you know that around here, you're not considered a Christian if you don't take all the scriptures at face value...??
Anyway, on some of your points I agree.. but basically I don't believe you have to be in love to have sex... actually I think its better when you're not, less stress and you're not held back by familiarity...
Also I don't think that its promiscuity that has contributed to the enormous amount of divorces and marriage failrures, or the ever spreading STD. Promiscuity has been around since the beginning of time. However with the cultural changes of our generation, women have a much more independent nature... and they don't need men to take care of them anymore.. so they don't stay around out of necessity. The same with men... sticking together for the sake of the children.. is no longer a viable reason.
The spreading of the STD... sort of went out with AIDS education. Getting a STD is minor in comparison to what you can get out there... Education and responsibility regarding sex is the major necessity here, as it was with the issues of the past -such as unwanted pregnancy..
Our children these days are also a lot more logical. They see sex in a lot more different ways than we allowed ourselves to see it in the past. You can preach abstinence and scripture all you want, but the kids only see it as oppression without good reason. Again, preaching education and responsibility seems a better avenue to me.
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THIS IS ELP
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Reed Lover
Forum Senior Member
Joined: July 16 2004
Location: Sao Tome and Pr
Status: Offline
Points: 5187
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Posted: April 09 2005 at 13:49 |
Hierophant wrote:
Personaly, i think premarital sex is a vice.
I think only if you are older and can really say to yourself "i love this person" then it is ok.
But I think the real problem is promiscuity.
To me: promiscuity has contributed to the enormous amount of divorces and marriage failrures and its only common sense that it contributes to the ever spreading STD.
Sex is good. But it shouldn't be abused.
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Premarital sex is a vice? How?
How do you abuse sex?
Why are things that are enjoyable always seen as wrong?
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goose
Forum Senior Member
Joined: June 20 2004
Location: United Kingdom
Status: Offline
Points: 4097
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Posted: April 09 2005 at 16:27 |
I don't have any problem before marriage, but I think it's fundamentally wrong outside of a serious relationship. I don't claim to have any very good reasons for that, but that's how I feel. And it does make me slightly hypocritical, but only slightly.
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FloydWright
Prog Reviewer
Joined: January 20 2005
Status: Offline
Points: 369
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Posted: April 10 2005 at 01:23 |
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It seems to me that premarital sex is a very risky thing to do. For one, STD's are certainly a huge potential risk, and for another...to so completely reveal oneself to a person without the total committment and trust of that person that comes with lifetime loyalty to that person seems like it could be very damaging to that person even if not right away. After all, if the one you have shared that with turns out not to be the "right one", it will just make the agony of the breakup much worse.
I will speak up and say that I am certainly speaking out of Christian beliefs--but also from observation of couples both married and unmarried which bears out what I'm saying.
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Guests
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Posted: April 10 2005 at 02:32 |
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Someone explain to me why sex is less dangerous when it's your wife. You can get STDs from her too just as easily. (It's true!!)
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James Lee
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: June 05 2004
Status: Offline
Points: 3525
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Posted: April 10 2005 at 05:41 |
well, in a monagamous relationship the only STDs you could get would be from each other...so if you don't got 'em, you're extremely likely not to get 'em.
...even though they're referred to as STDs, they are not only transmitted through sexual contact...most blood-bourne pathogens can be transimtted via other sources (transfusions, reused needles, etc.) and direct-contact diseases don't always require sexual contact to spread.
Don't tell me you don't know this stuff! You'd better not be having sex at all.
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Beau Heem
Forum Senior Member
Joined: January 12 2005
Location: Finland
Status: Offline
Points: 227
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Posted: April 10 2005 at 07:02 |
maani wrote:
Beau Heem:
I am not judging you, nor anyone else. Only God can judge.
As for my comment on AIDS, I was admittedly being somewhat
bombastic: the point is that promiscuity is what causes STDs, including
HIV and AIDS, to "make the rounds," and that if only
monogamous couples were having sex, then STDs, including HIV and AIDS,
would "have no place to go": they would be stopped dead in their
tracks. It is interesting that everyone jumped on me for the
bombast of my statement, yet did not admit its underlying
correctness. (N.B. I thank James Lee for his singular
admission of this.) |
I did not try to imply that you personally were about to judge me. What
I intended to point out was the overall readiness of Christians to
interpret earthly misfortunes as God's punishments - a sort of a "I
cannot judge but I'm glad that I see God doing what I would if I could"
sort of thing...
Whereas, if I understand correctly, the Chirstian God is to judge as according to our beliefs and actions in the afterlife,
not, by ending lives "early", during life. I might be on the wrong
tracks here, but as I understand the essence of the good book when it
comes to judging, our behaviour in life either makes God to send us to
hell or lifts us up to the heavens after death, but He does not give us
AIDS or Malaria, nor raise an earthquake to bury us.
This is the exact reason why I get a terrible nausea from such
"bombastic" comments, like yours earlier. Such comments are simply
against my understanding of your religion.
Having as close to no knowledge about the subject as possible, I suppose I should keep out of all religious debates. 
Cheers
-Beau
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--No enemy but time--
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Sean Trane
Special Collaborator
Prog Folk
Joined: April 29 2004
Location: Heart of Europe
Status: Offline
Points: 20338
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Posted: April 11 2005 at 02:53 |
Well, I 'm glad I left this thread before it became a religious theologist tirade. 
Where are the T & A that we were cpromised in this thread
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let's just stay above the moral melee
prefer the sink to the gutter
keep our sand-castle virtues
content to be a doer
as well as a thinker,
prefer lifting our pen
rather than un-sheath our sword
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James Lee
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: June 05 2004
Status: Offline
Points: 3525
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Posted: April 12 2005 at 04:35 |
For Sean:
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Sean Trane
Special Collaborator
Prog Folk
Joined: April 29 2004
Location: Heart of Europe
Status: Offline
Points: 20338
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Posted: April 12 2005 at 05:43 |
James Lee wrote:
For Sean:
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Not funny, James!!!!!!
I was thinking of bimbos!!!!!
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let's just stay above the moral melee
prefer the sink to the gutter
keep our sand-castle virtues
content to be a doer
as well as a thinker,
prefer lifting our pen
rather than un-sheath our sword
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James Lee
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: June 05 2004
Status: Offline
Points: 3525
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Posted: April 12 2005 at 06:10 |
Oh, okay....bimbos. How about:
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Sean Trane
Special Collaborator
Prog Folk
Joined: April 29 2004
Location: Heart of Europe
Status: Offline
Points: 20338
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Posted: April 12 2005 at 07:17 |
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Good grief Charlie Brown
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let's just stay above the moral melee
prefer the sink to the gutter
keep our sand-castle virtues
content to be a doer
as well as a thinker,
prefer lifting our pen
rather than un-sheath our sword
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Sex before marriage
