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Peter 
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: January 31 2004
Location: Canada
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Points: 9669
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 Topic: Civility/censorship poll
Posted: May 11 2004 at 17:55 |
All members are urged to vote, but please read and carefully consider the related "Civility" thread first. What sort of progressive rock forum do you want?
I should perhaps point out that this is NOT an "official" poll ( I am just one reviewer of many here), but is rather something that I am doing out of my own interest.
Edited by Peter Rideout
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"And, has thou slain the Jabberwock?
Come to my arms, my beamish boy!
O frabjous day! Callooh! Callay!'
He chortled in his joy.
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Glass-Prison
Forum Senior Member
Joined: February 08 2004
Location: Canada
Status: Offline
Points: 453
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Posted: May 11 2004 at 19:12 |
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I will abstain from voting for one simple reason: I support the censorship effort this site is taking, yet I also endorse free debate (regulated, of course) on more controversial topics. therefore, both options seem too extreme for me, and I, instead will choose an intermediate ground.
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Peter
Special Collaborator
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Joined: January 31 2004
Location: Canada
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Points: 9669
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Posted: May 11 2004 at 21:27 |
 Glass-Prison wrote:
I will abstain from voting for one simple reason: I support the censorship effort this site is taking, yet I also endorse free debate (regulated, of course) on more controversial topics. therefore, both options seem too extreme for me, and I, instead will choose an intermediate ground. |
A very good point, and principled stance, Glass.
Thanks for the response anyway, if not a vote.
Perhaps it is a little extremely worded (I have now edited it) -- a bit "heat of the moment," -- but in the early days of this Forum, we had a smaller community, and a sort of tacit gentlemen's (& woman's ) agreement to avoid certain subjects. We occasionally "pulled each other back from the brink," but we generally managed to get along rather well. Now that we are bigger, and more obviously diverse in ages and attitudes, I think we have to establish if we have any content rules or not. To me, that seems to be the obvious question.
Edited by Peter Rideout
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"And, has thou slain the Jabberwock?
Come to my arms, my beamish boy!
O frabjous day! Callooh! Callay!'
He chortled in his joy.
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M@X
Forum & Site Admin Group
Co-founder, Admin & Webmaster
Joined: January 29 2004
Location: Canada
Status: Offline
Points: 4028
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Posted: May 11 2004 at 21:47 |
GOOD POLL ...
But I do have mixed feelings about this one.
- I want to build THE MAJOR PROG ROCK FORUM on the INTERNET
- I want to know an share opinion with my fellow prog rock fans about other things in life also (movies, women, cars, money, politics and war ... )
I think if people do not want to share about particular SUBJECT , they are responsible enough to NOT post if don't want ...
SO I will cast my VOTE to
Talk about anything. No censorship or consequences
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Prog On !
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Peter
Special Collaborator
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Joined: January 31 2004
Location: Canada
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Points: 9669
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Posted: May 11 2004 at 22:19 |
You're just saying that because you're a Canadian!
OK, Max, open content it is. But, with all possible respect (and I wouldn't be here without your good will) what about a person's tone in arguing, or the personal nature of his attacks?
Also, does the right to talk about "anything" amount to a right to slander, or to post extremist or racist political material?
What about sex and pornograhic movies as topics?
Could any of this cause trouble, in the form of an exodus of members?
I ask this in all seriousness, and not in a confrontational manner. I feel sure that you would agree that there must be some control, and I am sure you would not allow material such as I have named to be distributed here, to the cost of your great website.
I am just saying that I think you need some stated rules or policies (as in: "The management reserves the right....") on allowable post contents, and I suspect that you agree with me on this.
Edited by Peter Rideout
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"And, has thou slain the Jabberwock?
Come to my arms, my beamish boy!
O frabjous day! Callooh! Callay!'
He chortled in his joy.
|
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Glass-Prison
Forum Senior Member
Joined: February 08 2004
Location: Canada
Status: Offline
Points: 453
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Posted: May 11 2004 at 22:59 |
I fear this is much too complex to sum up in a few sentences... Perhaps we should write our own constitution! 
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Ivan_Melgar_M
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Joined: April 27 2004
Location: Peru
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Points: 19535
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Posted: May 11 2004 at 23:19 |
In first place I will tell you something I lived in another forum which I enjoyed very much. Almost all the members where ex Audio Galaxy downloaders and friends, the topics were amazing and participation was great.
One day a member said something about the Bush administration in Irak when the war started, and the battle began, people who were friends took positions one against the other, some even insulted those who didn't agree.
I'm a natural moderate person so participated with my opinion (which was eclectic), but always trying to stop the quarrel, even asked twice to stop the thread, but the owner who took a radical position banned all those members of Latin America, Europe and the rest of the world who ddn't live in coalition countries (including me) and even one member from Portugal who never participated in the infamous thread.
I was asked to return as a couple of members, but the damage was done, there was discomfort among those who once where friends, with great spirit and the best of intentions the member from Portugal created a new forum where all the members of the original one are accepted. But things are not always so great, sometimes there's no second chance, and I would hate to see this forum (in which I'm new but already love) die because of any problem.
Actually I avoid to post about politics, religion or sport discussions to avoid any trouble.
My proposition:
1.- Freedom of posting about almost any theme, but absolute liberty for the administrators to eliminate and close any thread that's becoming to hot and aggresive without any explanation.
2.- I have no problem with strong language, but some people are more easily ofended so the use of bad words should only be allowed if the writer uses simbols to replace at least one letter (f**k, sh*t, etc.)
3.- Absolute prohibition of racist, sectarian, sexist or pornografic comments or threads including those against personal beliefs or disbeliefs and any form of religion.
That's my opinion, hope it helps in any way.
Iván
Edited by ivan_2068
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Peter
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: January 31 2004
Location: Canada
Status: Offline
Points: 9669
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Posted: May 11 2004 at 23:29 |
Glass-Prison wrote:
I will abstain from voting for one simple reason: I support the censorship effort this site is taking, yet I also endorse free debate (regulated, of course) on more controversial topics. therefore, both options seem too extreme for me, and I, instead will choose an intermediate ground. |
Which would you prefer, free or regulated?
 I think that we are in agreement on the fundamental point. There must be limits as to what and how we post, or else people won't want to be here.
Consider -- and here I am speaking to all members: There are some very angry, unbalanced and extremist people out there (who haven't found, or don't care, about us yet -- but let our content become more and more controversial/political and they will inevitably come, like rats to a grainery), and they shouldn't be given free reign to destroy a music-lovers' community with constant negativity and hatred.
I'm not afraid of arguments, but I don't want to be baited into them constantly, either. My time and energy would be better spent elsewhere, in such a case.
This is by no means the case now, but I believe that anarchy would be counter-productive to the viability of a site with a single dedicated focus, like this very one. As in a democracy, there must be accepted, stated norms, and known consequences (up to banishment) for willfully disregarding those norms.
To publicly attack my reputation or expose me to ridicule without justification constitutes slander in the wider world, and amounts to the same thing here. People don't come here to be insulted.
(Well maybe Jim and Danbo do, by me, their idol, but I insult them in a very fond fashion, and actually treasure their witty and barbed ripostes!)
Edited by Peter Rideout
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"And, has thou slain the Jabberwock?
Come to my arms, my beamish boy!
O frabjous day! Callooh! Callay!'
He chortled in his joy.
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Peter
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: January 31 2004
Location: Canada
Status: Offline
Points: 9669
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Posted: May 11 2004 at 23:37 |
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"And, has thou slain the Jabberwock?
Come to my arms, my beamish boy!
O frabjous day! Callooh! Callay!'
He chortled in his joy.
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richardh
Prog Reviewer
Joined: February 18 2004
Location: United Kingdom
Status: Offline
Points: 28021
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Posted: May 12 2004 at 01:22 |
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''It's about the music'' NO Politics or Religion please.
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Jim Garten
Special Collaborator
Retired Admin & Razor Guru
Joined: February 02 2004
Location: South England
Status: Offline
Points: 14693
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Posted: May 12 2004 at 03:10 |
Definitely a difficult area, but one any growing community has to face eventually, the application of rules, laws, acceptable behaviour, censure (punishment?).
Peter, as always, your voice of reason is appreciated, and given the cut & thrust of the main 'civility' thread, it will be interesting to see how this poll sways (as I write, option 1 = 1 vote, option 2 = 6 votes).
Ivan - I salute you - splendid, reasoned arguments, and as for your "proposition", I think we have the first draft of a constitution, here.
One last thing - if we do end up with a formal constitution, can I suggest that 'the right to bear arms' is excluded...... 
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Jon Lord 1941 - 2012
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Certif1ed
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Joined: April 08 2004
Location: England
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Points: 7559
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Posted: May 12 2004 at 03:19 |
I LIKE politics and religion as discussion topics, am in full agreement with Glass Prison and cannot bring myself to select either option because of the text next to the voting buttons - even though you have explained it succinctly, Peter.
It is obvious that any Internet forum REQUIRES moderation, and I do not envy any moderator the task! However, while any free-thinking person would balk at having his or her precious thoughts censored, it is obvious that when emotions run high, things are said or done that might be regretted or upsetting.
EVERY member has something valuable to add, but anyone can let their feelings run away with them. It is this situation in which the moderator needs to (sensitively) step in. Deleting threads is one way - but you could lose otherwise valuable contributions.
I would advocate more the use of additional forum areas, so if a discussion strays too far off topic, a moderator - or even a member - could suggest taking the discussion to that forum area. If you do not like the topic or collection of topics in that forum area, you are then free to not look. If the moderator thinks the topic is way O/T - or OTT, then threads can be locked to prevent further discussion (with a brief note from the moderator as to why this is done).
You could go further and have "My Favourite Forum Areas", so that when you log in, only the forum areas you participate in are visible. That way you don't ever have to see topics that annoy, upset or offend you. I'll think about this a bit more and post in the SUGGESTIONS FOR THE FORUMS section...
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Velvetclown
Forum Senior Member
Joined: February 13 2004
Status: Offline
Points: 8548
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Posted: May 12 2004 at 03:29 |
Well my views...............
But I believe that Certif1ed has come up with the perfect solution 
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philippe
Special Collaborator
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Joined: March 14 2004
Location: noosphere
Status: Offline
Points: 3597
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Posted: May 12 2004 at 03:48 |
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...The second choice off course...
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diddy
Prog Reviewer
Joined: March 02 2004
Location: Germany
Status: Offline
Points: 1117
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Posted: May 12 2004 at 06:20 |
Hmmm...
As you can see there are Members that want to talk about seveal things and some members think that this should be only about prog...
Now there's maybe a simple solution, similar to certif1ed's.
Why not create a forum in the Off-Topic section where you can talk about this kind of topics...people that like to discuss such things can go there, others don't go and ignore it...
Edited by diddy
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If liberty means anything at all, it means the right to tell people what they do not want to hear...
George Orwell
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bityear
Forum Senior Member
Joined: April 25 2004
Location: Sweden
Status: Offline
Points: 171
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Posted: May 12 2004 at 06:57 |
Very good idea, yes.
I'd like to discuss music MOSTLY, but when you make friends, or need to lighten your mind about something that really bugs you, well, it's easier to do it here than to have to move to another forum, or even write emails. An Off-topic section would rock.
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www.geocities.com/joelbitars
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M@X
Forum & Site Admin Group
Co-founder, Admin & Webmaster
Joined: January 29 2004
Location: Canada
Status: Offline
Points: 4028
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Posted: May 12 2004 at 07:21 |
I think we found a SOLUTION here,
we will do our best to keep the conversions going on the most respectful, it will be possible with the great help of MAANI and you guys who will report any abuse or dis-respect and we will continu to do the cleaning with members and posts that does (really) not fit in the context of this FORUM.
Also , we will create a 1st POLL and yo guys will decide wich MAIN CATEGORY will divide the POST...
EX:
- MUSIC
- OFF TOPICS
- HELP AND SUPPORT
- ...
Then we will decide (together) wich main FORUM there will be in each category
EX:
MAIN CATEGORY : MUSIC
Sub-Forum:
- PROGRESSIVE ROCK
- OTHER MUSIC GENRE
- FEATURED CD
- CURRENTLY LISTENING TO
- ....
Following me ? Thanks to Certif1ed for the inspiration..
Once we've setup the perfect SUBDIVISION , we (you) will continue to monitor discussions and do our best to keep them clear by deleting un-related discussions and un-related members 
How about this ?
Edited by MAX@
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Prog On !
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Peter
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: January 31 2004
Location: Canada
Status: Offline
Points: 9669
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Posted: May 12 2004 at 07:40 |
 Sounds good, Max! I'm not really wary of certain topics, so much as their potential to provoke anger and insults. These latter two are my main concern. As a writer who real name and various "particulars" appear here, I want to feel safe from unchecked harassment or threats. I have been personally ridiculed by a new (teenage) member in the past, albeit on a different forum (he had come here via a metal forum), where he had vowed to "kill" us all.
I just want to know that the management will continue to expel such hotheads and potential psychos, or obviously, as a family man, I couldn't stay.
THAT, and not some prudish fear of sex, swearing, or heated debate, is my real concern. I also wouldn't want to attract new members who care little for the music, but merely want to attack others' political/religious views in a nasty or personal manner.
That's all.
Edited by Peter Rideout
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"And, has thou slain the Jabberwock?
Come to my arms, my beamish boy!
O frabjous day! Callooh! Callay!'
He chortled in his joy.
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Velvetclown
Forum Senior Member
Joined: February 13 2004
Status: Offline
Points: 8548
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Posted: May 12 2004 at 07:40 |
I think It´s great, now all civilized members can choose not to view anything that will upset their little minds. The rest of us can also benefit from not having to read anything naive and boring.
I´m all for it 
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diddy
Prog Reviewer
Joined: March 02 2004
Location: Germany
Status: Offline
Points: 1117
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Posted: May 12 2004 at 07:42 |
But the new structure of the Forum doesn't cause all the posts to be deleted...or will there be a new blank board??? Please not...
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If liberty means anything at all, it means the right to tell people what they do not want to hear...
George Orwell
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Civility/censorship poll
