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brainstormer
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Topic: Vangelis interview 2013 Posted: February 26 2014 at 21:04 |
There is a longer documentary on Vangelis on Youtube, about an hour.
He's the tops in my book, as far as these kinds of composers/prog rock stars. When I discovered Heaven and Hell, after being exposed the the big English prog bands, I really felt like I had arrived at a different kind of animal. Probably too early to tell who the greatest living composers are, apart from Arvo Part, but Vangelis is certainly the cream of the crop when it comes to prog rock/crossovers.
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mwood
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Posted: February 26 2014 at 19:49 |
moshkito wrote:
I think that someone is waiting for him to die, because then, the release of the film/special will get a lot more attention. I just find the whole thing tasteless and sad and pathetic and I'm tired of people taking advantage of artists.
I saw this with Salvador Dali and already with 2 other artists in my life, and it ain't pretty! |
Sad commentary, but true. Warren Zevon, anyone? The vultures started circling right after he was diagnosed with mesothelioma.
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richardh
Prog Reviewer
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Posted: February 26 2014 at 16:11 |
depressing thought but you might be right.
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moshkito
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Posted: February 26 2014 at 09:09 |
Hi,
And that interview/movie that was supposed to be made is STILL not out.
I think that someone is waiting for him to die, because then, the release of the film/special will get a lot more attention. I just find the whole thing tasteless and sad and pathetic and I'm tired of people taking advantage of artists.
I saw this with Salvador Dali and already with 2 other artists in my life, and it ain't pretty!
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Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told! www.pedrosena.com
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richardh
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Posted: January 08 2014 at 01:25 |
moshkito wrote:
richardh wrote:
...
Perhaps a commercial decision as the download market doesn't like long tracks |
Actually we need to clarify this. The commercial decision is that $1.99 makes more money with short cuts than long cuts! It sells "more" for the amount of time. And this is the greed factor that no one will talk about, up to and including Apple, when these folks do not give a damn about music.
But you can do what Pink Floyd did. You can't cut up the long songs! But only a handful of bands can tell Apple to ____ off! And if you don't have control of your own music, you are hung out to dry and die!
That's my single greatest disappointment, that even Apple will not do SERIOUS classical music, and sell it. Meaning they don't give a damn about music. They just want the numbers, and it is obvious in their stock and rip-off stuff that is over-priced. The other online services that offer music are the same! |
yep I was gobsmacked what was done with the reissue of Tulls TAAB.
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moshkito
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Posted: January 07 2014 at 08:18 |
richardh wrote:
...
Perhaps a commercial decision as the download market doesn't like long tracks |
Actually we need to clarify this. The commercial decision is that $1.99 makes more money with short cuts than long cuts! It sells "more" for the amount of time. And this is the greed factor that no one will talk about, up to and including Apple, when these folks do not give a damn about music.
But you can do what Pink Floyd did. You can't cut up the long songs! But only a handful of bands can tell Apple to ____ off! And if you don't have control of your own music, you are hung out to dry and die!
That's my single greatest disappointment, that even Apple will not do SERIOUS classical music, and sell it. Meaning they don't give a damn about music. They just want the numbers, and it is obvious in their stock and rip-off stuff that is over-priced. The other online services that offer music are the same!
Edited by moshkito - January 07 2014 at 08:21
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Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told! www.pedrosena.com
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richardh
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Posted: January 07 2014 at 01:21 |
Chris S wrote:
^ I agree with you re Voices. Unbelievable atmospheres and the follow up Oceanic. For me his pinnacle was El Greco. It is peculiar how we pigeon hole art. For example I would not say Heaven & Hell was commercial but in 1975 or whenever it was released perhaps it was!. The only commercial works in my opinion/perception were the Soundtracks Blade Runner , Chariots Of Fire, and 1492. Perhaps to a lesser degree Antarctica. And most of us know the history regarding Blade Runner and Ridley Scott.
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El Greco is his most pure artistic work indeed
Chariots of Fire as it was on side 2 of the original album release was a beauty. That album is the 2 sides of the artistic coin. Sadly the recent reissue based on the stage play loses the suite. Perhaps a commercial decision as the download market doesn't like long tracks
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Tom Ozric
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Posted: January 06 2014 at 03:01 |
Anyone who creates a track such as 'Reve' (from his Opera Sauvage album) has got to be touched by a God.....
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Chris S
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Posted: January 06 2014 at 02:57 |
^ I agree with you re Voices. Unbelievable atmospheres and the follow up Oceanic. For me his pinnacle was El Greco. It is peculiar how we pigeon hole art. For example I would not say Heaven & Hell was commercial but in 1975 or whenever it was released perhaps it was!. The only commercial works in my opinion/perception were the Soundtracks Blade Runner , Chariots Of Fire, and 1492. Perhaps to a lesser degree Antarctica. And most of us know the history regarding Blade Runner and Ridley Scott.
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<font color=Brown>Music - The Sound Librarian
...As I venture through the slipstream, between the viaducts in your dreams...[/COLOR]
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richardh
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Posted: January 06 2014 at 01:37 |
Agree with most of the above. I don't dislike his commercial releases , in fact I love most Vangelis and own pretty much everything he's ever done. Voices was a commercial release but also contains some of the most beautiful music he ever recorded imo. There are also those wonderfull albums with Irene Papas. Odes ticked the commercial boxes and artistic boxes especially. I think the point I was trying to make is that no musician have complete freedom to release whatever they want whenever they want. I didn't say he was 'commercially motivated' and wasn't trying to suggest that..
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verslibre
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Posted: January 05 2014 at 14:44 |
King Only wrote:
But I still think that albums like "See You Later", "Soil Festivities" and "Mask" are obviously what Vangelis was personally interested in, rather than what he thought would be popular.If you look at Vangelis' discography it's usually obvious which albums are his "personal" releases and which albums were released to "pay the bills". |
Soil Festivities is brilliant, IMO. And when Direct came out, it sounded like he just felt like doing a prog-electronic album. Vangelis has certainly always played literally to the beat of his own drum ( Beauborg, for instance).
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Chris S
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Posted: January 05 2014 at 12:34 |
richardh wrote:
moshkito wrote:
Hi,
Excellent video.
The hard part, is discussing what he considers "music" and then calling what he does "nature".
It's the difference between being 100% intuitive, and what we consider "music". We have come to the point that we believe only this and that and done this way is "music" and no one else can think otherwise, or do something different.
THAT is the clue that it has become so commercialized and we need another 60's revolution to wake folks up to the fact that we can't explore anymore and we're not allowed to learn different things, except the same different chords and this time we will call it differently than the other one because you used the pinkie backwards instead of not!
We have become such a dis-disillusioned society that we can not even believe that someone can do something different, or that someone is not interested in the social belief and life that we're stuck on! And the worst part ... they are creative and we aren't!
As Jim Morrison would scream .. .WAKE UP! HAS THIS DREAM STOPPED?
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BUT Vangelis was a commercial artist. When he moved to England he was put forward as the next Tomita with a dash of Rick Wakeman and a touch of the ELP's.
I think he slotted readily into this with Heaven and Hell and Albedo but then Beauborg was maybe his 'rebellion' against record company expectations. All popular musicians in the seventies had to work within parameters. This supposed freedom of expression you always allude to has rarely ever existed imo. |
I am not sure I agree entirely. The 70's allowed for far more creativity than later on. Especially the early 70's. Vangelis may allude otherwise but there has rarely been such a prolific artist and his releases fluctuated widely in terms of output. Yes we have Wakeman but my guess his dirge of releases occurred after the 70's and IMO were largely crap. Vangelis was commercial in the 70's and had the license to be creative, which he did
Edited by Chris S - January 05 2014 at 12:42
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<font color=Brown>Music - The Sound Librarian
...As I venture through the slipstream, between the viaducts in your dreams...[/COLOR]
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moshkito
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Posted: January 05 2014 at 11:21 |
King Only wrote:
I think that Vangelis' desire for musical freedom was what motivated him to set up Nemo Studios in London. It was his own studio so he could experiment however he liked, whenever he liked. So he had complete freedom and he recorded many hours of music that was not commercially motivated and was never released on any albums.
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I think the economic disparity is the difference here, though. At first London was appealing, because it looked like where all the work was, but then, I think the expenses became too much and probably were forcing him to take on work he didn't want to do.
Eventually though, he found his peace back home, and I'm glad for it, but his London days and studio also produced magnificent work.
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Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told! www.pedrosena.com
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King Only
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Posted: January 03 2014 at 02:56 |
I think that Vangelis' desire for musical freedom was what motivated him to set up Nemo Studios in London. It was his own studio so he could experiment however he liked, whenever he liked. So he had complete freedom and he recorded many hours of music that was not commercially motivated and was never released on any albums. There are several youtube videos of him just improvising and recording in the studio, and he's just playing freely and really enjoying himself. But of course he had to pay for the rent of the building, buying and maintaining equipment and paying the engineers. So he would license his music for TV commercials, sometimes lease the studio to bands that his brother managed, do soundtracks and of course also do the official album releases.
The only problem he had was with releasing music, because the labels usually only want to release one album by an artist per year. And of course the record labels want something 'marketable' (because they want to make a return on their investment, they are not charities or non-profit organisations). So the music that was officially released is not necessarily representative of all the music Vangelis was making privately.
But I still think that albums like "See You Later", "Soil Festivities" and "Mask" are obviously what Vangelis was personally interested in, rather than what he thought would be popular.
If you look at Vangelis' discography it's usually obvious which albums are his "personal" releases and which albums were released to "pay the bills".
Edited by King Only - January 03 2014 at 02:57
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richardh
Prog Reviewer
Joined: February 18 2004
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Posted: January 03 2014 at 01:48 |
moshkito wrote:
Hi,
Excellent video.
The hard part, is discussing what he considers "music" and then calling what he does "nature".
It's the difference between being 100% intuitive, and what we consider "music". We have come to the point that we believe only this and that and done this way is "music" and no one else can think otherwise, or do something different.
THAT is the clue that it has become so commercialized and we need another 60's revolution to wake folks up to the fact that we can't explore anymore and we're not allowed to learn different things, except the same different chords and this time we will call it differently than the other one because you used the pinkie backwards instead of not!
We have become such a dis-disillusioned society that we can not even believe that someone can do something different, or that someone is not interested in the social belief and life that we're stuck on! And the worst part ... they are creative and we aren't!
As Jim Morrison would scream .. .WAKE UP! HAS THIS DREAM STOPPED?
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BUT Vangelis was a commercial artist. When he moved to England he was put forward as the next Tomita with a dash of Rick Wakeman and a touch of the ELP's.
I think he slotted readily into this with Heaven and Hell and Albedo but then Beauborg was maybe his 'rebellion' against record company expectations. All popular musicians in the seventies had to work within parameters. This supposed freedom of expression you always allude to has rarely ever existed imo.
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Slartibartfast
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Posted: January 02 2014 at 13:08 |
I remember reading about him being self taught in a Keyboard magazine interview in the late '70's. Certainly one of my inspirations.
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Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened...
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moshkito
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Posted: January 02 2014 at 12:28 |
Hi,
Excellent video.
The hard part, is discussing what he considers "music" and then calling what he does "nature".
It's the difference between being 100% intuitive, and what we consider "music". We have come to the point that we believe only this and that and done this way is "music" and no one else can think otherwise, or do something different.
THAT is the clue that it has become so commercialized and we need another 60's revolution to wake folks up to the fact that we can't explore anymore and we're not allowed to learn different things, except the same different chords and this time we will call it differently than the other one because you used the pinkie backwards instead of not!
We have become such a dis-disillusioned society that we can not even believe that someone can do something different, or that someone is not interested in the social belief and life that we're stuck on! And the worst part ... they are creative and we aren't!
As Jim Morrison would scream .. .WAKE UP! HAS THIS DREAM STOPPED?
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Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told! www.pedrosena.com
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moshkito
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Posted: December 31 2013 at 09:22 |
dr wu23 wrote:
... And the guitar , stringed instrument, is one of the earliest musical instruments, before keys , even though it later did not feature prominently in orchestras. ...
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Let's see ... the Portland Orchestra just did a thing and I looked. No guitars or amplifiers except for the microphone so you could hear the conductor say Good Evening and Good Night!
dr wu23 wrote:
You seem to have a fixation on misunderstanding 'foreign peoples'. I doubt if that had anything to do with the original comment by Vangelis but maybe he had a very 'dry' sense of humor that day when talking to Anderson.
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Because it is frustrating as all hell being in an English speaking board, and every one thinks you are the debil and can't speak engrish and your opinions are totally screwed up, because the English speaking world invented the media and still acts like they own the world for it, and invented progressive music, and rock music, and jazz and war, and bullsh*t and everything else! And to this day the "progressive" definition is an "all-english" affair, with not appreciation or mention of the other relative areas and things that inspired it.
If you think Vangelis has opinions, wait until you hear from Edgar Froese. Or Klaus Schulze! They are merely being polite by not saying anything, because folks like you won't get it, and will go on a tirade that Mosh is a pit and has ideas up his as$.
You have to stand up for your work. But a lot of people do not "believe", and further more "understand" where the work comes from, and that in itself is an issue that we are not willing to study and appreciate, which is what the history of the arts, for the most part, has been all about!
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Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told! www.pedrosena.com
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dr wu23
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Posted: December 04 2013 at 09:44 |
moshkito wrote:
dr wu23 wrote:
Apparently Anderson and the rest of Yes didn't consider it a joke.
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Doesn't add up! Vangelis still says very nice things about Jon and he says the same about Vangelis!
But in reality, a "guitar" as we know it, is NOT a part of most orchestra designs, and still does not have a thread in Tchaikovsky and Stravinsky ... so hearing Vangelis say that is even funnier ... but then, they didn't have the thread for teaspoons either!
It's too easy to mis-understand foreign peoples that do not speak English, but we automatically assume that it's wrong! |
Anything's possible but then the story is still there.; maybe we need to get Jon and Vangelis on the board and hash it out?
And the guitar , stringed instrument, is one of the earliest musical instruments, before keys , even though it later did not feature prominently in orchestras.
You seem to have a fixation on misunderstanding 'foreign peoples'. I doubt if that had anything to do with the original comment by Vangelis but maybe he had a very 'dry' sense of humor that day when talking to Anderson.
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One does nothing yet nothing is left undone. Haquin
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moshkito
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Posted: December 04 2013 at 09:24 |
dr wu23 wrote:
Apparently Anderson and the rest of Yes didn't consider it a joke.
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Doesn't add up! Vangelis still says very nice things about Jon and he says the same about Vangelis!
But in reality, a "guitar" as we know it, is NOT a part of most orchestra designs, and still does not have a thread in Tchaikovsky and Stravinsky ... so hearing Vangelis say that is even funnier ... but then, they didn't have the thread for teaspoons either!
It's too easy to mis-understand foreign peoples that do not speak English, but we automatically assume that it's wrong!
Edited by moshkito - December 04 2013 at 09:24
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Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told! www.pedrosena.com
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