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Joined: August 09 2005
Location: Finland
Status: Offline
Points: 514
Posted: September 14 2011 at 02:11
Henry Plainview wrote:
octopus-4 wrote:
Does it mean that nobody should use images of wars or natural catastrophes or African hunger?
In music videos, yes.
IMO you're hiding your head in the sand, perhaps because of subconscious feelings connected to that attack. An artist reflects the world in his/her works, and to put together things like music and documentary film is not immoral, at least when the message is implicit, and not used in a way where the artist wants to somehow cash in with other people's suffering.
If you make good music and accompany it with documentary film of the starvation in East Africa, it might even make more people aware of the hunger there, and eventually help the starving.
Special Collaborator
RIO/Avant/Zeuhl,Neo & Post/Math Teams
Joined: October 31 2006
Location: Italy
Status: Offline
Points: 14046
Posted: September 14 2011 at 01:40
Henry Plainview wrote:
octopus-4 wrote:
Does it mean that nobody should use images of wars or natural catastrophes or African hunger?
In music videos, yes.
The Hemulen wrote:
I think that album/song title is perhaps somewhat understandable (if not wholly forgivable) if one takes into account its cultural and political context.
I don't actually know why they did it, but I always assumed they had some sort of reason, although I never cared enough to try to find out. But I fairly certain I would consider it tasteless even if I did know.
Why not? Is it immoral? I don't think that Captain Beefheart would have had this kind of complaints. However it's evident that we'll remain on our own positions so proceeding with the discussion is useless and also time consuming because of our different time zones.
About the Area, just give a look to the band's bio on PA. You don't have to listen to them if you don't want. Because of the premature death of Demetrio Stratos they weren't active at the time of the first RIO, but they would have perfectly fit there. Sometimes lyrics are as important as music, and this is their case, They didn't just give a title to the album. They have also filled it with contents. Exactly the countrary of what Anima did. The author wrote some instrumental music, likely basing on his feelings. Check out other works of that band and you'll spot the difference between that track and all the rest that's doom/industrial metal. Then putting the music over the images which have inspired it doesn't seem immoral to me. The same images have been used by Bush to support the invasion of Iraq. Who is immoral?
However feel free to reply. I will not. I don't want to cross the borders of what belongs to music and PA and this is exactly what we are doing. Of course if any victim's relative feels "offended" I'm ready to apologize but honestly I don't see anything bad in that video.
I stand with Roger Waters, I stand with Joan Baez, I stand with Victor Jara, I stand with Woody Guthrie. Music is revolution
Joined: May 26 2008
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Points: 16715
Posted: September 13 2011 at 15:48
octopus-4 wrote:
Does it mean that nobody should use images of wars or natural catastrophes or African hunger?
In music videos, yes.
The Hemulen wrote:
I think that album/song title is perhaps somewhat understandable (if not wholly forgivable) if one takes into account its cultural and political context.
I don't actually know why they did it, but I always assumed they had some sort of reason, although I never cared enough to try to find out. But I fairly certain I would consider it tasteless even if I did know.
Special Collaborator
RIO/Avant/Zeuhl,Neo & Post/Math Teams
Joined: October 31 2006
Location: Italy
Status: Offline
Points: 14046
Posted: September 13 2011 at 01:29
Henry Plainview wrote:
Also, Arbeit Macht Frei is completely tasteless and always has been.
The question is not "how good" it is. It's about facts not less tragic than the 9/11. It's just an example of the fact that one can write a song basing on a fact or something read on a newspaper, anything that hits the author's mind and feelings. The result can be good or bad, but it's not meant to be offensive.
Of course is more stuff for singer-songwriters like Bob Dylan, but there are examples also in prog. This is what we mean. I have found the 9/11 video while looking at Senmuth's website by coincidence, and because it was the 9/11 I have posted it. I still don't get your point.
If you don't like the music, fine. It's question of tastes. In general you can dislike having made a video using images from the real world instead of fairies, gnomes or acid visions, but I don't see anything bad in it. There are no words or comments, just images and music. Does it mean that nobody should use images of wars or natural catastrophes or African hunger? Can't an artist be interested or emotionally hit by what happens in the world?
I stand with Roger Waters, I stand with Joan Baez, I stand with Victor Jara, I stand with Woody Guthrie. Music is revolution
Joined: July 31 2004
Location: UK
Status: Offline
Points: 5964
Posted: September 12 2011 at 17:13
Henry Plainview wrote:
Scoring a movie about something or writing a song about something is completely different from putting your music over the actual footage of people dying.
Also, Arbeit Macht Frei is completely tasteless and always has been.
100% with you on the first point, Henry, but with regards to Area, I think that album/song title is perhaps somewhat understandable (if not wholly forgivable) if one takes into account its cultural and political context.
Joined: May 26 2008
Location: Declined
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Points: 16715
Posted: September 12 2011 at 16:48
jean-marie wrote:
Vangelis scored the Rossif film music about the Nuremberg trial.... And i guess movies will be realised about September
Scoring a movie about something or writing a song about something is completely different from putting your music over the actual footage of people dying.
Also, Arbeit Macht Frei is completely tasteless and always has been.
Special Collaborator
RIO/Avant/Zeuhl,Neo & Post/Math Teams
Joined: October 31 2006
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Points: 14046
Posted: September 12 2011 at 04:58
Henry Plainview wrote:
octopus-4 wrote:
Henry Plainview wrote:
What the f**k? No.
What's wrong friend? This video was made in 2003, it's not a celebration of this year's anniversary. Anima disbanded in 2004.
It really does not matter to me when it was made. There's no such thing as a good 9/11 video tribute that includes explicit footage and musical accompaniment to begin with, and adding your own music makes it even worse. I do feel a little bit better that they've broken up, though.
Well, I'm not American and it's possible that I don't understand completely your feelings, but commenting images with music is what each TV news magazine have done during the last 50 years.
The band has written the music getting inspiration from that tragic fact, then they released that video. I don't see anything offensive or commercial either. Senmuth's about 100 albums are all downloadable for free.
Writing music or songs inspired by tragic events is quite common in prog and not only. I too wrote a song in 1980 after the bombing in a train station which killed about 100 people. I was inspired because I'm one of the survivors.
The song was nothing special, to be honest, I wasn't talented enough to be a songwriter.
I stand with Roger Waters, I stand with Joan Baez, I stand with Victor Jara, I stand with Woody Guthrie. Music is revolution
Joined: May 26 2008
Location: Declined
Status: Offline
Points: 16715
Posted: September 12 2011 at 03:28
octopus-4 wrote:
Henry Plainview wrote:
What the f**k? No.
What's wrong friend? This video was made in 2003, it's not a celebration of this year's anniversary. Anima disbanded in 2004.
It really does not matter to me when it was made. There's no such thing as a good 9/11 video tribute that includes explicit footage and musical accompaniment to begin with, and adding your own music makes it even worse. I do feel a little bit better that they've broken up, though.
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Henry Plainview wrote:
