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Topic: Estate of the music Posted: May 15 2011 at 16:23 |
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darkshade
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Posted: April 02 2011 at 13:01 |
Time to chime in
i think this has been mentioned before, but im not sure. One of the bigger problems is the lack of exposure for newer acts. Acts that have been around for 40 years are still advertised on TV, radio, internet; even if they're dead (half the Beatles, Elvis, etc..). Newer acts never get their time in the sun.
I know a little more than a dozen bands and artists who, 10-15 years ago would have broken out into commercial success, but with the way things are now, they have to work VERY hard to make a living.
I'll use the jam band circuit as an example.
When Jerry Garcia died in 95, Phish took over as the biggest jam band after the Grateful Dead. When Phish broke up for a hiatus in 2004, Umphrey's McGee were poised to take that mantle, being they were on the rise for a few years before. But with the way the internet was by the time of the middle of the decade, people just kept talking about Phish, and hoping they'd get back together soon, etc. and how Umphrey's McGee were going to take their place as the biggest jam band. But everyone just kept talking about it on forums, but it never happened. Now Phish are back and bigger than ever, never giving a chance for any of the lesser known bands.
It's sad really. I can use the same situation as above for different bands, just switch the band names around.
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harmonium.ro
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Posted: April 02 2011 at 12:57 |
It's best you stay away from it
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CPicard
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Posted: April 02 2011 at 12:51 |
harmonium.ro wrote:
There are much, much worse things in the field of commercial music. Have you heard of turbo-folk or manele?
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I've heard about Serbian turbo-folk - in a documentary about Milosevic. It was an awkward introduction and I can't say it gave me a huge desire to explore this genre.
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harmonium.ro
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Posted: April 02 2011 at 12:46 |
There are much, much worse things in the field of commercial music. Have you heard of turbo-folk or manele?
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leonalvarado
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Posted: April 02 2011 at 11:06 |
The T wrote:
^I just bought Strange Places. I hope the enjoyment is on the good side .
EDIT: Heard it twice already. Good enjoyment. I reviewed it on iTunes (though the review doesn't appear yet).
BUT you CAN't expect that kind of music to have anything to do with the market for Rebecca Black's magnum opus  |
Well, I'm glad you liked it. And no, I don't expect to be in the same market for the Friday song. It was never about specifics. Rebecca's song is musically bad even in her own market. It was never about the music or Rebecca. It is about people willing to spend money in silly things instead of at least looking for something with at least some value. The best argument I read so far against my original post is the one about finding some value in the laughter created by the song. I can see that but, not to the point of spending any money on it. Specially if I could see it for free.
As far as Rebecca Black herself, there you go baby! College paid for. It really doesn't get any better than that. I just hope that the mass media doesn't get a hold of her around the talk-show circuit because that sort of thing is usually a bad thing for a kid's mind and ego. Also, people love to build up Cinderella stories as much as they love to destroy the ending. There is a fine line between good exposure and overexposure in an instant-gratification world.
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rogerthat
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Joined: September 03 2006
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Posted: April 02 2011 at 00:56 |
Pop - and really, really bad pop at that - is a separate market from that of prog and that has always been the reality. Barbara Streisand's debut was also a blockbuster and even if she might be, at least imo, heaps better as a singer than many contemporary divas, that was surely staid and conservative next to some of the exciting things going on in the 60s. There have always been people who'd rather listen to Leonard Cohen than The Who and whatever may be the former's undeniable appeal for some sections of the audience, I don't see that as something taking rock/pop music places which The Who did.
With that being said, I'd like to bring up a point which seems to have been evaded in this discussion (or maybe I missed it!  ). Music's place in popular culture and society is surely sinking and has been in decline for sometime. With the advent of computers, video gaming and so many other distractions, music as a source of entertainment has become less relevant or appealing. It's therefore not surprising that the one which grabs the most eyeballs wins in the commercial sweepstakes. I am writing to you - the threadstarter, sorry couldn't get your userid - from thousands of miles away in India and here too, genius in composition or virtuosity in singing was valued and celebrated much, much more in years past than it is now. People must be apologetic for the present era to deny it. Yes, there are people who still have an ear for quality in music (and I am NOT getting into any long argument about the subjectivity of quality here!) but I am, as you are, referring to the general demographic here. The general demographic is after all important to sustain a business and to pay musicians for their work. Millions of copies of sales for left-field music is not sustainable anymore because people have found new toys to play with and don't have the time anymore. That is to say, if it may be unsavoury of what is seen as a golden era of rock music, it is likely that if the same distractions had existed then in the 70s too, very many of those millions of listeners may not have after all bought those albums because these would have fascinated them more than the music.
To compound matters, there are many more artists releasing their work through various means today so grabbing eyeballs is that much harder, in a very divided and fragmented fanbase. My suggestion - it may be something that you've already considered, nevertheless... - is to do what this guy Cert1fied who writes intermittently here does. He derives actual samples of live instrument playing from recorded songs (like THAT bass tone in Tom Sawyer, just as an example), loads them into what I believe is a MIDI keyboard and plays his own original parts with these tones on the keyboard. The effect is pretty good, I must say. He was last seen searching for an elusive NWOBHM guitar tone. As you said, there are costs involved in hiring fine musicians to play on a record and if the economics doesn't work out, it is surely better to opt for something like this than to not make music at all, which would be a shame (some prominent neo prog musician took that step recently). It then doesn't pinch your wallet and you still have the satisfaction of making the kind of music you want to and not submit to the world of Rebbeca Black. And if somebody decides to buy your song just for fun, you get to keep the money too.
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crimhead
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Posted: April 01 2011 at 23:20 |
Atoms wrote:
I just checked out that Rebecca Black on Youtube, this is even worse than the usual stuff I hear. The music industry really is a sad place right now. |
Rebecca Black > Lady Gaga ROFL!!!! Pop is Dead. Long live Rock.(Apologies to Pete Townsend)
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Earendil
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Posted: April 01 2011 at 22:39 |
leonalvarado wrote:
Sure you can generalise. I gather you are rather young yourself. That's cool. In your case and others like you, it doesn't apply. Generalisations are just what people use to come up with conclusions for a particular data. Generalisation is basically another word for averaging a sample. Sure you don't think that I actually meant for no one young to realise who some of the bands were. I understand the implications my argument takes. Apparently I wrongly assumed that most people on these forums would understand where I'm coming from. Instead, they are taking it as a personal attack of one form or another. I have already being accused to not having a sense of humour and I guess also for not "contributing" enough to get some sort of special title. Never mind my actual musical contributions or all of the artwork that I've done throughout the last twenty or so years which are, in most people's minds, real contributions to the genre.
Look it is simple. My rant is not about personal issues and therefore I have to generalise. Otherwise I would be also accused of character assassination. I'm just stating my opinion. Have you seen the opinions of people towards the new YES lineup? You would think they want Chris Squire's head on a stick. How about Phil Collins selling out Genesis for a quick buck? Or Pink Floyd sucking because Roger Waters wasn't there.
In the end I'm glad that many people in the school listen to The Who. That makes me happy because I like The Who. I did some work once for John Entwistle. Meeting him was actually quite humorous. He showed up with a lady who would basically repeat anything I would say to him. He then would muttered some gargled sounds to the woman who in turn would repeat what he said in a form of English that I was able to understand. This went on back and forth for the duration of the conversation. I swear if I had a gun pointed at my head I could not understand anything that he would say. At the end we all sort of laughed out loud (I certainly did and he at least smiled).
Please take the thread for what it is, just an opinion. Frank Zappa once said: "Why do you necessarily have to be wrong just because a few million people think you are?" He also said: "Most people wouldn't know good music if it came up and bit them in the ass". My point? Just opinions, nothing to fret about and nothing to point out "who gives me the right to, balh blah, blah" as someone else on the thread already has.
Be cool!  |
I respect your opinion. Especially because people in general could be a lot less fickle and stupid.
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The T
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Posted: April 01 2011 at 22:23 |
^I just bought Strange Places. I hope the enjoyment is on the good side  .
EDIT: Heard it twice already. Good enjoyment. I reviewed it on iTunes (though the review doesn't appear yet).
BUT you CAN't expect that kind of music to have anything to do with the market for Rebecca Black's magnum opus 
Edited by The T - April 01 2011 at 22:32
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leonalvarado
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Posted: April 01 2011 at 21:56 |
The T wrote:
Look Leonelalvarado, thanks to you I bought the damn song for 99 cents to make fun to my girlfriend. I'll probably never hear it again after the time when I surprised her with it and got a huge laugh from it. It gave me 5 good minutes. That's enough. Now put your songs in youtube or iTunes and I'll gladly check if I can get enjoyment out of it, either by ridicule like with Friday or by actual musical/intellectual enjoyment like I do with tons and tons of music which not always are prog. |
Cool! You can find my songs in iTunes. Just search for Leon Alvarado in the iTune store and it should all come up. You are funny though. I like that.
You can listen to full versions of some of the songs here:
http://www.reverbnation.com/leonalvarado
Have fun either way (by ridicule or by actual musical/enjoyment).
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leonalvarado
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Posted: April 01 2011 at 21:46 |
Henry Plainview wrote:
There are an enormous number of people who do not care at all what those people think. I am one of them. I was intending to refer to someone like Bach or Beethoven. I still reject the idea that music has intrinsic value, but you would have a little more weight with music that has survived the acclaim of hundreds of years, not 40. [quote] Well, I'm not planning to live another hundred years so I'll stick with my examples for the purpose of my argument.
[QUOTE=Henry Plainview] I am 100% certain that everyone who bought the song had already heard it on Youtube. The people who bought it did not see it as mediocrity. They bought it to inflict on other people/ironically enjoy at any time, without internet access. It is fine if you don't find it funny enough to pay a whole dollar for it (that's as much as a can of soda!!), but you have no right to chastise people who do. |
I'm sorry if you spent your 99¢ in the song. Don't take it so personally. I only wish my daughter would have come up with such video. It would have saved my over $40,000 in college tuition.
By the way, lighten up. I can't believe people here are telling me that I'm the one with no sense of humour. Go watch the guy at the end of 60 minutes. He rants a lot.
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The T
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Posted: April 01 2011 at 21:43 |
Look Leonelalvarado, thanks to you I bought the damn song for 99 cents to make fun to my girlfriend. I'll probably never hear it again after the time when I surprised her with it and got a huge laugh from it. It gave me 5 good minutes. That's enough. Now put your songs in youtube or iTunes and I'll gladly check if I can get enjoyment out of it, either by ridicule like with Friday or by actual musical/intellectual enjoyment like I do with tons and tons of music which not always are prog.
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leonalvarado
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Posted: April 01 2011 at 21:38 |
Last comment was directed at Eärendil. The one before that was directed to the Henry Plainview. The fact that my posts did not come attached with the appropriate quotes just shows how little I know on how to use this thing. I know, it makes me some sort of dinosaur but I don't really do these forums often. Today was an exceptionally slow day that gave me more time in my hands that I usually get.
Whew! I wonder how many times a day do some of the people with thousands of post do it? When do they find the time?
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leonalvarado
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Joined: March 03 2009
Location: USA
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Posted: April 01 2011 at 21:31 |
Sure you can generalise. I gather you are rather young yourself. That's cool. In your case and others like you, it doesn't apply. Generalisations are just what people use to come up with conclusions for a particular data. Generalisation is basically another word for averaging a sample. Sure you don't think that I actually meant for no one young to realise who some of the bands were. I understand the implications my argument takes. Apparently I wrongly assumed that most people on these forums would understand where I'm coming from. Instead, they are taking it as a personal attack of one form or another. I have already being accused to not having a sense of humour and I guess also for not "contributing" enough to get some sort of special title. Never mind my actual musical contributions or all of the artwork that I've done throughout the last twenty or so years which are, in most people's minds, real contributions to the genre.
Look it is simple. My rant is not about personal issues and therefore I have to generalise. Otherwise I would be also accused of character assassination. I'm just stating my opinion. Have you seen the opinions of people towards the new YES lineup? You would think they want Chris Squire's head on a stick. How about Phil Collins selling out Genesis for a quick buck? Or Pink Floyd sucking because Roger Waters wasn't there.
In the end I'm glad that many people in the school listen to The Who. That makes me happy because I like The Who. I did some work once for John Entwistle. Meeting him was actually quite humorous. He showed up with a lady who would basically repeat anything I would say to him. He then would muttered some gargled sounds to the woman who in turn would repeat what he said in a form of English that I was able to understand. This went on back and forth for the duration of the conversation. I swear if I had a gun pointed at my head I could not understand anything that he would say. At the end we all sort of laughed out loud (I certainly did and he at least smiled).
Please take the thread for what it is, just an opinion. Frank Zappa once said: "Why do you necessarily have to be wrong just because a few million people think you are?" He also said: "Most people wouldn't know good music if it came up and bit them in the ass". My point? Just opinions, nothing to fret about and nothing to point out "who gives me the right to, balh blah, blah" as someone else on the thread already has.
Be cool! 
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leonalvarado
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Posted: April 01 2011 at 19:52 |
I have a right to an opinion. You may not like it but it is my opinion. I'm sure there are many things you find stupid in people. Just because you don't always express them doesn't mean that you don't think them. At any rate, I doubt that anything I write here will change people's minds. It obviously hasn't worked with yours.
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Earendil
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Posted: April 01 2011 at 16:33 |
I don't think you can generalize by saying that no one knows who these older bands are though. At my school, many people listen to The Who. And I have plenty of friends who listen to Pink Floyd and Rush. Sure, there are some groups of young people "with the attention span of a fly on speed", but it can't all be generalized. I certainly don't associate myself with the whole mainstream scene. In fact, I'd say that type of person is the minority considering all of the other social groups who have deeper interests in music, literature, film, art, etc. Interest in thought-provoking, creative music will never be lost.
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Henry Plainview
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Posted: April 01 2011 at 16:27 |
leonalvarado wrote:
They are in the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame, the UK Music Hall of Fame, and won the first annual Freddie Mercury Lifetime Achievement in Live Music Award. They also are the recipients of a LIfetime Achievement Award from the British Phonographic Industry and a Lifetime Achievement Award from the Grammy Foundation. They are ranked #3 on About.com's top 50 classic rock bands. They also have seven albums on Rolling Stone's 500 Greatest Albums of ALL Time. Ranked #2 on "Classic Rock's" 50 Best Live Acts of All Time. Ranked #9 on VH1's 100 Greatest Artist of all time.
So regarding to your obtuse view on The Who, they are all I have said and then some. You can ask Robert Plant, Jimmy Page, Brian May, The Jam, The Stooges, David Bowie, The Raspberries and even Cheap Trick about them. |
There are an enormous number of people who do not care at all what those people think. I am one of them. I was intending to refer to someone like Bach or Beethoven. I still reject the idea that music has intrinsic value, but you would have a little more weight with music that has survived the acclaim of hundreds of years, not 40.
Are you for real? |
Unfortunately, yes.
leonalvarado wrote:
Negoba,
There is nothing wrong with what the kid did. I also have not one but two daughters. It is not about her. It is about those who instead of just going to You Tube to check what all the fuzz is about, decided instead to pay for it to the tune of $50,000 dollars so far. Am I the only one who sees something wrong with this? (Maybe I am) 
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I am 100% certain that everyone who bought the song had already heard it on Youtube. The people who bought it did not see it as mediocrity. They bought it to inflict on other people/ironically enjoy at any time, without internet access. It is fine if you don't find it funny enough to pay a whole dollar for it (that's as much as a can of soda!!), but you have no right to chastise people who do.
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if you own a sodastream i hate you
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Negoba
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Joined: July 24 2008
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Posted: April 01 2011 at 16:25 |
50,000 people out of the tens of millions of people who checked out the youtube thought "Yeah for a dollar I'll have that on my iPod" (perhaps to make fun of, perhaps to play at a party where I bet it will get people's attention).
It's an interesting thought experiment more for me to wonder what I'd do with the situation. If something with my daughter went viral for wierd reasons, I'd be inclined to stop feeding it (though of course once it's out there, it's no longer yours, and you have to let what happens happens or you'd eat yourself up.) That means it never would have made it to iTunes. (I have songs available on iTunes, BTW.) But in the case, I'd probably have tried to shut the thing down to the extent I could.
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You are quite a fine person, and I am very fond of you. But you are only quite a little fellow, in a wide world, after all.
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harmonium.ro
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Posted: April 01 2011 at 16:17 |
^ I'll give you a firm YES
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