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Chris S 
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 Topic: revamp the genres
Posted: December 04 2010 at 23:54 |
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^ A debateable point but IMO the USA/Canada has lead the way for prog in the last 10-15 years.
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<font color=Brown>Music - The Sound Librarian
...As I venture through the slipstream, between the viaducts in your dreams...[/COLOR]
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Atavachron
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Joined: September 30 2006
Location: Pearland
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Points: 65268
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Posted: December 04 2010 at 22:34 |
 Chris S wrote:
A very interesting investment in time and effort by Moris, some time ago
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hadn't expected the U.S. to have by far the most bands listed
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Man With Hat
Collaborator
Jazz-Rock/Fusion/Canterbury Team
Joined: March 12 2005
Location: Neurotica
Status: Offline
Points: 166178
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Posted: December 04 2010 at 22:20 |
Slartibartfast wrote:
Destroy all sub genres, but do it on Barking Pumpkin Records.  |
*Whispers*
I'm going to destroy all the Frank Zappa master tapes. I'm going to do it.
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Dig me...But don't...Bury me
I'm running still, I shall until, one day, I hope that I'll arrive
Warning: Listening to jazz excessively can cause a laxative effect.
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Dean
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Retired Admin and Amateur Layabout
Joined: May 13 2007
Location: Europe
Status: Offline
Points: 37575
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Posted: December 04 2010 at 12:25 |
in the meantime Marty, here's a picture for you to crayon:
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What?
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Marty McFly
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Joined: March 23 2009
Location: Czech Republic
Status: Offline
Points: 3968
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Posted: December 04 2010 at 08:41 |
Slartibartfast wrote:
Destroy all sub-genres marines
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There's a point where "avant-garde" and "experimental" becomes "terrible" and "pointless," -Andyman1125 on Lulu  Even my
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Slartibartfast
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Joined: April 29 2006
Location: Atlantais
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Points: 29630
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Posted: December 04 2010 at 08:07 |
Destroy all sub genres, but do it on Barking Pumpkin Records.
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Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened... 
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CCVP
Prog Reviewer
Joined: September 15 2007
Location: Vitória, Brasil
Status: Offline
Points: 7971
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Posted: December 04 2010 at 07:19 |
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harmonium.ro
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Joined: August 18 2008
Location: Anna Calvi
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Posted: December 04 2010 at 07:15 |
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Nearly went through a blue ink war... nearly.
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JJLehto
Prog Reviewer
Joined: April 05 2006
Location: Tallahassee, FL
Status: Offline
Points: 34550
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Posted: December 04 2010 at 00:11 |
Triceratopsoil wrote:
what in the hell hath happened to my thread?
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What happens to every PA thread?
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Triceratopsoil
Forum Senior Member
Joined: April 03 2010
Location: Canada
Status: Offline
Points: 18016
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Posted: December 03 2010 at 23:45 |
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what in the hell hath happened to my thread?
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Chris S
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Joined: June 09 2004
Location: Front Range
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Points: 7028
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Posted: December 03 2010 at 22:34 |
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****SIGH****
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<font color=Brown>Music - The Sound Librarian
...As I venture through the slipstream, between the viaducts in your dreams...[/COLOR]
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Man With Hat
Collaborator
Jazz-Rock/Fusion/Canterbury Team
Joined: March 12 2005
Location: Neurotica
Status: Offline
Points: 166178
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Posted: December 03 2010 at 22:03 |
thellama73 wrote:
Man With Hat wrote:
stonebeard wrote:
Textbook wrote:
I agree that this needs to be done. My biggest problem is that Italy is a genre which has never made the slightest bit of sense to me. |
I disagree, I suppose, because I consider "Berlin school" a more appropriate name for what we pass of as Progressive Electronic here. Makes more sense than not including Aphex Twin.
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The way I see it with Aphex Twin is the lack of rock. Nothing I've heard from AT has elements of rock IMO. Obviously I haven't heard everything.
Of course, the response is but neither is *insert "Berlin School" music act here* or *ditto*. Well thats possible. I know even less about PE than I do Aphex twin.  |
I don't understand why Merzbow is not in Progressive Electronic.
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Not enough noise. 
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Dig me...But don't...Bury me
I'm running still, I shall until, one day, I hope that I'll arrive
Warning: Listening to jazz excessively can cause a laxative effect.
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Ivan_Melgar_M
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Joined: April 27 2004
Location: Peru
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Points: 19535
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Posted: December 03 2010 at 21:29 |
Dean wrote:
RPI is a branch of symphonic prog that is unique to Italy and the Italian language. Its influence has spread to other Mediterranean countries, notably Greece, Spain and Israel (while not being "symphonic" Ahvak has noticeable RPI influences), though the genre and bands themselves has remained confined to one country. |
No longer a branch of Symphonic Dean, even when I don't agree, Italian Symphonic made more sense than RPI, because this new CATEGORY (Can't be a genre, because we have Symph, Neo, Fusion, Folk and even Hard bands in RPI), leads to comnfusion.
It's absurd to have a Jazz, a Symphonic and a Neo Prog bands al together when they don't have absolutely nothing musically in common except maybe that their members (in some cases not even all) were born inside the Italian peninsula, because some sing in English and even in Latin.
Iván
Edited by Ivan_Melgar_M - December 03 2010 at 21:32
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thellama73
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Joined: May 29 2006
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 8368
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Posted: December 03 2010 at 21:14 |
Man With Hat wrote:
stonebeard wrote:
Textbook wrote:
I agree that this needs to be done. My biggest problem is that Italy is a genre which has never made the slightest bit of sense to me. |
I disagree, I suppose, because I consider "Berlin school" a more appropriate name for what we pass of as Progressive Electronic here. Makes more sense than not including Aphex Twin.
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The way I see it with Aphex Twin is the lack of rock. Nothing I've heard from AT has elements of rock IMO. Obviously I haven't heard everything.
Of course, the response is but neither is *insert "Berlin School" music act here* or *ditto*. Well thats possible. I know even less about PE than I do Aphex twin. |
I don't understand why Merzbow is not in Progressive Electronic.
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Man With Hat
Collaborator
Jazz-Rock/Fusion/Canterbury Team
Joined: March 12 2005
Location: Neurotica
Status: Offline
Points: 166178
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Posted: December 03 2010 at 21:10 |
stonebeard wrote:
Textbook wrote:
I agree that this needs to be done. My biggest problem is that Italy is a genre which has never made the slightest bit of sense to me. |
I disagree, I suppose, because I consider "Berlin school" a more appropriate name for what we pass of as Progressive Electronic here. Makes more sense than not including Aphex Twin.
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The way I see it with Aphex Twin is the lack of rock. Nothing I've heard from AT has elements of rock IMO. Obviously I haven't heard everything.
Of course, the response is but neither is *insert "Berlin School" music act here* or *ditto*. Well thats possible. I know even less about PE than I do Aphex twin.
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Dig me...But don't...Bury me
I'm running still, I shall until, one day, I hope that I'll arrive
Warning: Listening to jazz excessively can cause a laxative effect.
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Easy Money
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator / Retired Admin
Joined: August 11 2007
Location: Memphis
Status: Offline
Points: 10618
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Posted: December 03 2010 at 21:07 |
Raga rock is generally a sort of European or Euro-American music that is influenced by Indian music, even if that influence may seem superficial or amateur.
I like Indian music, both popular and classical, and I like some of the better raga-rock bands too, but raga-rock and Indian music are not the same thing, and most raga-rock bands will usually be from Europe or the states.
Edited by Easy Money - December 03 2010 at 21:09
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Dean
Special Collaborator
Retired Admin and Amateur Layabout
Joined: May 13 2007
Location: Europe
Status: Offline
Points: 37575
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Posted: December 03 2010 at 19:55 |
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*sigh*
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What?
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Textbook
Forum Senior Member
Joined: October 08 2009
Status: Offline
Points: 3281
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Posted: December 03 2010 at 19:52 |
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Exactly. Being Italian seems to be a pre-requisite for being RPI and that's simply not a musical factor.
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Marty McFly
Special Collaborator
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Joined: March 23 2009
Location: Czech Republic
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Points: 3968
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Posted: December 03 2010 at 14:24 |
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^ But RPI is certainly consisting of Italian bands only, unlike Krautrock, which has bands that are (excuse me) not only "Krauts".
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There's a point where "avant-garde" and "experimental" becomes "terrible" and "pointless," -Andyman1125 on Lulu Even my
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Todd
Special Collaborator
RPI / Heavy Prog Team
Joined: December 19 2007
Location: California
Status: Offline
Points: 3472
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Posted: December 03 2010 at 11:43 |
Dean wrote:
Well, there's the thing - Krautrock is not all the same and is even more localised to regions within Germany, with München bands (eg Amon Düül) being completely unrelated to Berlin (Tangerine Dream, Ash Ra Tempel ) or Köln bands (Can, Neu!, Kraftwerke, Cluster) etc. not all German Krautrock bands play Kosmische Musik. not all German bands end up in Krautrock (eg Eloy, Grobschnitt, Triumvirat) while some French, Japanese, Swiss and English bands do get placed in Krautrock (and, personally, I would argue that Steven Wilson's IEM should be in Krautrock too).
All genres get diluted as more bands get added, this is natural, but at its core RPI is fairly recognisable as being of an Italian flavour (even with English lyrics) since the Classical music bedrock on which it is formed is of the Italian traditional Classical and Folk roots rather than just the native language or nationality of the artists. Again, like Krautrock, movements within RPI are more regional than just being confined to one country, with musical sub-styles centring around bands from distinct regions or cities within Italy (Tuscany, Rome, Naples, Turin etc.).
This regionality can also be observed in other subgenres (notably Symphonic and of course Prog Folk) and in the past we have considered the idea of noting localised "movements" within subgenres to highlight the degree of synergy and cross-fertilisation between bands that share a common heritage (even if they only sharted the same gig-circuit). |
Nice post, Dean.
RPI is certainly not "prog from Italy." Currently RPI has about 265 bands, compared to roughly 475 bands from Italy on the site. And we as an RPI team are still in process of reviewing the bands currently listed as RPI to see if they would better fit in other subs. We work pretty hard on keeping the sub consistent--if you'd like to see the criteria, please read the definition on the sub-genre page.
That being said, bickering about subs takes up way too much time. I guess we like to pick our nits, so to speak. But in the meantime, back to the music . . .
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revamp the genres
