Vowels vs. Consonants |
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Tony R
Special Collaborator Honorary Collaborator / Retired Admin Joined: July 16 2004 Location: UK Status: Offline Points: 11979 |
Topic: Vowels vs. Consonants Posted: October 21 2010 at 07:06 |
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Dude, now there's a guy who's never been accused of being inconsonant!
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dude
Forum Senior Member Joined: January 30 2004 Location: Australia Status: Offline Points: 1338 |
Posted: October 21 2010 at 05:26 | ||
I live in Australia which is the smallest of the consenants(its actually called "The Island Consenant"),we dont have many species of vowels here but you can hear them sometimes at night calling out as they hunt for mice and other creatures.
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GY!BE
Forum Senior Member Joined: July 27 2010 Location: Montreal Status: Offline Points: 538 |
Posted: October 12 2010 at 19:21 | ||
Making the equality by voting vowels.
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The T
Special Collaborator Honorary Collaborator Joined: October 16 2006 Location: FL, USA Status: Offline Points: 17493 |
Posted: October 07 2010 at 13:31 | ||
I actually do the same of you and most of you in general... (though I have my doubts about Mom... ) For all the debating, I think I've get to know many people much better, and add some tolerance to my quite non-endless set of skills....
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JJLehto
Prog Reviewer Joined: April 05 2006 Location: Tallahassee, FL Status: Offline Points: 34550 |
Posted: October 07 2010 at 13:03 | ||
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thellama73
Collaborator Honorary Collaborator Joined: May 29 2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 8368 |
Posted: October 07 2010 at 12:57 | ||
Believe it or not, I think you're quite a decent and intelligent fellow. |
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The T
Special Collaborator Honorary Collaborator Joined: October 16 2006 Location: FL, USA Status: Offline Points: 17493 |
Posted: October 07 2010 at 12:51 | ||
TheLlama understanding my words and even defending them? But it's true. That's exactly what I said. "Thnks" looks like thanks, but "a" doesn't... Edited by The T - October 07 2010 at 12:52 |
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Paravion
Forum Senior Member Joined: May 01 2010 Location: Denmark Status: Offline Points: 470 |
Posted: October 07 2010 at 12:45 | ||
^Perhaps. I read some point about text-message language being 'stupid' and that it also served as a general proof of a fact that consonants inherently have a higher degree of communicative ability.
I know that I'm confused, ultimately don't hold any beliefs and am easy to manipulate and persuade.
Edited by Paravion - October 07 2010 at 12:49 |
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thellama73
Collaborator Honorary Collaborator Joined: May 29 2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 8368 |
Posted: October 07 2010 at 12:32 | ||
I'm pretty sure that was the original point he was making. Introducing: The Paravion Method: Argue with someone about something they've said then, later, say the same thing back to them as if it were your own idea. Edited by thellama73 - October 07 2010 at 12:41 |
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Paravion
Forum Senior Member Joined: May 01 2010 Location: Denmark Status: Offline Points: 470 |
Posted: October 07 2010 at 12:30 | ||
In text messages you are are not free to use as many characters as you want. So from an 'economic' point of view it makes a lot of sense to shorten the words. That words in most cases are abbreviated by just writing the consonants is probably because they orthographically are more helpful as means to identify the word. Pls is easier to identify than eae in writing. I don't understand how it is 'stupid' or something that is a bad thing.
Edited by Paravion - October 07 2010 at 12:35 |
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The T
Special Collaborator Honorary Collaborator Joined: October 16 2006 Location: FL, USA Status: Offline Points: 17493 |
Posted: October 07 2010 at 12:00 | ||
I would have to resort to personal experience. I abhor the use of this system if we can call it that way, I still write full damn words even if it takes me much longer. But most people I contact with write with this overly simplified txt message style and consonants rule. Pls (please), thnks (thanks), txt, etc etc. Of course, acronyms or abbreviations (how would they be called? remember english is not my first language) are also part of this form of communication and then vowels come to help like in the hated-by-me LOL or LMAO or all of that...
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Paravion
Forum Senior Member Joined: May 01 2010 Location: Denmark Status: Offline Points: 470 |
Posted: October 07 2010 at 11:43 | ||
^
I see. But you wrote "As proved by the stupid text-message language, you can comunicate only using consonants." Outside of any linguistic/phonetic context, I doubt that your observations have the ability to actually prove a general statement like that. Nevertheless it's interesting. I have never noticed that there is a particular consonant bias in shortened text-message language use, but there may be something about it. Can u provide examples?
Edited by Paravion - October 07 2010 at 11:44 |
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The T
Special Collaborator Honorary Collaborator Joined: October 16 2006 Location: FL, USA Status: Offline Points: 17493 |
Posted: October 07 2010 at 11:07 | ||
This is not about phoneticians. This is about the real world (my reply at least). If you have checked, people are gradually writing simpler and simpler especially in quick communication settings like in text messages, and in most cases only consonants are used. We're not talking about morse code or sign language, we're talking about words, and you can build semi-coherent ones using consonants, but it gets difficult with vowels. I guess we're talking about different things. Of course if written language is not your concern, what I said doesn't apply.
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Paravion
Forum Senior Member Joined: May 01 2010 Location: Denmark Status: Offline Points: 470 |
Posted: October 07 2010 at 06:22 | ||
You can communicate without using either, as is the case with morse codes, sign language and various other forms of non-verbal communication. It's not a valid conclusion that consonants bear a higher degree of communicative ability than vowels. Vowels and consonants are sounds - and I direct attention to their physiological and functional attributes. Written language doesn't concern phoneticians.
Very poetic description. But I must admit that terms like "the workhorses of language" "fortunate" "emotive cousins" "setting" and "gemstone" really doesn't work as describing terms to someone trained in phonetics and linguistics. What do you mean? By "workhorses of language" I suppose you refer to the consonants' 'role' in syllabic structures in which they are 'build' around the vowel which is the central syllabic component of such structures. But from there to reach a conception of consonants as "setting" and vowles as "gemstone" is actually not plausible in any way. But I quite like the description anyway, I had had the same 'literary' approach and tendency when I began studying linguistics, but my teachers kept telling not to write in this style and to be more boring and dry. Thankfully, we can't all be phoneticians. They are really cut-off from the outside world. What is a phone?
Edited by Paravion - October 07 2010 at 07:00 |
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Lozlan
Forum Senior Member Joined: December 09 2009 Location: New Mexico Status: Offline Points: 536 |
Posted: October 06 2010 at 22:28 | ||
Of course you can pluralize it! Just add an i (ex: octopi). A collection of oei. I like the sound of that. Similar to the bellow of a Howler Monkey, actually. As for my personal choice...consonants. They are the workhorses of language, sculpting themselves around their more-fortunate, emotive cousins. I often appreciate the setting more than the gemstone, and vernacular is no exception. Edited by Lozlan - October 06 2010 at 22:29 |
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Certified Obscure Prog Fart.
The Loose Palace of Exile - My first novel, The Mask of Tamrel, now available on Amazon and Kindle |
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The T
Special Collaborator Honorary Collaborator Joined: October 16 2006 Location: FL, USA Status: Offline Points: 17493 |
Posted: October 06 2010 at 22:20 | ||
As proved by the stupid text-message language, you can comunicate only using consonants. I don't believe you can with just vowels.
Though some people seem to talk with their bowels...
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Paravion
Forum Senior Member Joined: May 01 2010 Location: Denmark Status: Offline Points: 470 |
Posted: October 06 2010 at 17:21 | ||
You may have discovered a significant linguistic paradox It's also interesting how vowels are considered as something of value - or at least, something more valuable than consonants. I suppose the idea is that vowels are more likely to reveal the word. It makes sense because vowels have longer duration than consonants, they are the center (functional part) of syllabic structures and they rank higher on the sonority scale. They have more 'sound'. That's also why they get my support in this 'contest.
You should. But if you think a preference for consonants is necessary in order to study phonetics, it's probably not something for you. There is no difference in complexity in the descriptive frames and methods for descriptions of vowels and consonants. Vowels' inherent status is not diffuse.
Your choice is limited anyway - you don't 'choose' the letters prior to the word. The phonetic content of the word has usually, and generally, no influence in the 'decision-making' process.. ..'Quality' and 'quantity' - in phonetics - are not engaged in competition.
Edited by Paravion - October 06 2010 at 18:12 |
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CPicard
Forum Senior Member Joined: October 03 2008 Location: Là, sui monti. Status: Offline Points: 10841 |
Posted: October 06 2010 at 13:27 | ||
Once, I wrote a song which lyrics were only made of consonants.
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JJLehto
Prog Reviewer Joined: April 05 2006 Location: Tallahassee, FL Status: Offline Points: 34550 |
Posted: October 05 2010 at 23:13 | ||
Damn, I didn't care but you're passionate defense of consonants has swayed me. |
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Man With Hat
Collaborator Jazz-Rock/Fusion/Canterbury Team Joined: March 12 2005 Location: Neurotica Status: Offline Points: 166183 |
Posted: October 05 2010 at 21:29 | ||
Consonants by far. So many to choose from.
And don't give me this quality over quanity bs. Limited quality in vowels easy.
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Dig me...But don't...Bury me
I'm running still, I shall until, one day, I hope that I'll arrive Warning: Listening to jazz excessively can cause a laxative effect. |
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