Faux Prog Fans

Genesis

Henry Plainview wrote: rogerthat wrote: Further, I am not really so sure that people who dig krautrock/avant/zeuhl are necessarily chasing progressiveness; rather, they may be chasing dissonance, darkness and chaos.  That is true, a lot of people in these discussions mistake dissonance for progressiveness. While a little free jazz or atonality may be new for you, there's a century of avant-garde music behind us.  Guldbamsen wrote: I think most seekers of new and challenging music refrain from moulds and prefabricated recipes - unless you are a girl... Enough with the sexism, people, jeez. I saw women at a frickin Merzbow show, I'm sorry you can't find another woman on the internet that likes early Rush but that really doesn't mean anything. That is more because most people aren't hopeless music nerds, and a lot of the people who are get sucked into the horrible indie pop vortex instead of the complexity and chaos vortex.

Thanks, Henry

Antennas wrote: Lozlan wrote: ergaster wrote: Antennas wrote: Guldbamsen wrote: I am basically with you all the way, but who decides what´s progressive? It´s the same kind of obstacles you face when you try to define art. I don´t subscribe to "forcing" the music onto myself, if I really don´t like it. Pretty simple, but then again 95% of my favourite albums in my record collection, didn´t click at all when I first started playing them, Music is tricky.  Recently I´ve had a thesis about women I know searching for adventure and complexity in their relationships - whereas I and the majority of my male friends seek these things in music. I think most seekers of new and challenging music refrain from moulds and prefabricated recipes - unless you are a girl...   Read: "Female Prog Fans don't exist".    LOL. We exist, but we're not "girlfriends".     I am my boyfriend's (and fellow ProgFan!) girlfriend, though.

Glad to hear you exist - for a while there I was beginning to think that you were made up - like elves and transformers...

Gerinski wrote:   For myself, the best prog is that which manages to hit the delicate balance between retaining "musicality" (if I'm allowed to use that word) while still being challenging to the listener. And honestly, this is what I find in many of the classic symphonic (and many eclectic and fusion/jazz-rock) masters which I still find unparalleled today. They got the right balance between the traditional musical values of melody, harmony and rythm while producing truly interesting and challenging music. I do not fancy weirdness or experimentation just for the sake of it, as much as I do not fancy "musicality" in the simple forms exploited by maintream pop. The balance is the key.   If you truly enjoy highly progressive music, good for you, but thinking that you are more cool because you listen to the most progressive music around is as "faux" as anything else, and critisicing people who love Yes, Genesis, GG or ELP for "not being true proggers" is complete bull***t.

Lozlan wrote: ergaster wrote: Antennas wrote: Guldbamsen wrote: I am basically with you all the way, but who decides what´s progressive? It´s the same kind of obstacles you face when you try to define art. I don´t subscribe to "forcing" the music onto myself, if I really don´t like it. Pretty simple, but then again 95% of my favourite albums in my record collection, didn´t click at all when I first started playing them, Music is tricky.  Recently I´ve had a thesis about women I know searching for adventure and complexity in their relationships - whereas I and the majority of my male friends seek these things in music. I think most seekers of new and challenging music refrain from moulds and prefabricated recipes - unless you are a girl...   Read: "Female Prog Fans don't exist".    LOL. We exist, but we're not "girlfriends".

Antennas wrote: Guldbamsen wrote: I am basically with you all the way, but who decides what´s progressive? It´s the same kind of obstacles you face when you try to define art. I don´t subscribe to "forcing" the music onto myself, if I really don´t like it. Pretty simple, but then again 95% of my favourite albums in my record collection, didn´t click at all when I first started playing them, Music is tricky.  Recently I´ve had a thesis about women I know searching for adventure and complexity in their relationships - whereas I and the majority of my male friends seek these things in music. I think most seekers of new and challenging music refrain from moulds and prefabricated recipes - unless you are a girl...   Read: "Female Prog Fans don't exist".

LOL.

We exist, but we're not "girlfriends".  

Atavachron wrote: maybe it's like heroin, you're always chasing that first high that never happens again

Can't speak for the dragon but this is quite right for me. trying to find that thrill (Like A Farewell To Kings for example.) That is mere emotion of course and that should be discarded from serious and high minded prog rock.

The thrills do happen though. P tree for me... though still not the latest release...

But new music to me is just something I have not yet heard. The top 20 attitude that something has to be listenable / heard only in it's current year of release just irritates the bejesus out of me. Fashions...

I've heard some prog bands as I keep trying) and found Mostly Autumn to be slavishly David Gilmour oriented (so what, so am I ...) or Pure Reason Revolution with their Echoes obsession (Bright ambassador' of the morning ... repeat... again, so what so am I...) Wobbler who sound like a band that are good but have a style of music (symphonic prog) that needs new and fresh takes. Maybe these guys have done new and original stuff since. But time is money as has been noted and it someone wants to live his rock fantasy put tat's fine but I like rock music that builds something different from what influenced them. Or at least try... Like Purple and Zeppelin with blues and 50s rock and roll did not stop them from going to great places. (Purple - Concerto, Gemini Suite, In Rock, Japan. Everything Zeppelin did... which wasn't a lot....)

It's the orginal ideas that win. It's oddly not the great players always. Otherwise I'd have lots of recordings with Billy Sheehan and Steve Vai (FZ appearances not withstanding.) I have some of their recordings but the best music is when someone has something fantastic to say even if it could be said better... (e.g I do prefer hearing Jeff Beck playing A Day In The Life but it was a Beatles idea...)

Don't think I'm an ersatz or faux prog rock fan. The recent internet unveiling of zeuhl and RIO did wonders for me...

Trying.... well,  one has to spend time with albums. Giving a cursory listen has it's merits to see if it takes off but ... oh well, take chances. The PA album reviews (overall ratings) usually give a reasonable indication so long as they are honest...

Textbook wrote: Let's not name any names but I notice a distinct division on the site between people who are actual fans of progressive music (those who seek new, original sounds without regard for what elements are used to create them) and "faux" progressive fans who seek the intellectual cache of prog but actually run a mile from anything unfamiliar. Yes and Genesis are good bands and I like both of them but it must be said that for whatever reason a change/time resistant cult seems to have formed chiefly around them, the members of which only enjoy new prog if it sounds like Yes or Genesis. This to me is absolutely the opposite of prog as it is stagnant. I accuse those who would not listen to or try music that is receiving acclaim because they "don't like that sort of thing" to be a lilly-livered rascal. I really like Johnny Cash but never would've tried him if I'd stuck to my "I don't like country music" thing. A true prog fan will try ANYTHING. ANYTHING AT ALL. They don't have to like it, but they'll get it and hear it all the way through before deciding.   True?

Not sure if by 'receiving acclaim' you mean successful or just 'trendy', but as a warning to the dangers of prejudice impacting on our ability to try new things, it's probably apt. I see the problem here being what expectations each of us brings to PA itself i.e. those who you define in my emboldened red would not I suspect, source the majority of their listening material solely from what is described within the site. That proggy slant most of our members are attracted by is probably not present in much of the innovative and ground breaking work being produced in metal, pop, rock, electronic, classical, dance, jazz etc
(If it were, such artists would either already be here or would be eligible for inclusion as per the genre definitions)

I do think you have identified something that has for some time now, placed PA at something of a crossroads e.g. will the site eventually mutate into a portal for 'new music' or continue to be a celebration of the 'Progressive Rock spirit' that permeated the mainstream in the early 70's?

I'm engaged to a classically trained musician who constantly laughs at and belittles my prog obsession.  The fact that I listen to it regardless pretty much shows which side of this divide I'm on.

ergaster wrote: Textbook wrote: To summarise for those just joining us, The Thread So Far: If you don't know all the lyrics to Safety Dance, you're not a real prog fan. Damn. My cover is blown.  (slinks off to listen to Safety Dance again....)

"You can dance if you want to