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himtroy
Forum Senior Member
Joined: January 20 2009
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Points: 1601
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Topic: Page or Fripp Posted: June 09 2010 at 18:09 |
CyberDiablo wrote:
Oh, come on! This is a prog rock forum, what do you expect them to say? No matter what Fripp is always better in "artistic" way. Page is somewhat better in playing guitar, but that's all.
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Not at all. You can say you like Page more, but Fripp is without a doubt miles beyond him in technical ability. In my opinion he's better in every fashion actually, but Page's technical ability vs Rob's is a joke.
And I love how people's defense for Page is basically that he cared more about how he looked and less about how well he played....pathetic.
Edited by himtroy - June 09 2010 at 18:11
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Which of you to gain me, tell, will risk uncertain pains of hell?
I will not forgive you if you will not take the chance.
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Alberto Muņoz
Forum Senior Member
Joined: July 26 2006
Location: Mexico
Status: Offline
Points: 3577
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Posted: June 09 2010 at 18:03 |
TODDLER wrote:
Alberto Muņoz wrote:
Page was sloppy sometimes for the lifestyle of rock musicians who climb to the superstardom.
Fripp on the other hand is a very regimental guy not only guitarrist but guy.
Page are flamboyant on Stage, Fripp is always sitting quietly playing his guitar, so it's easy not to be sloppy when you are sitting.
For example let see the Famous acoustic side of Zeppelin, did Page was sloppy ? i think not.
So it's hard to compare two guitarrist that had different approach to the music.
I wonder how many of you have listen to live recordings of KC in the 70's, for example i hear the Plumptom Festival in 1969, (check the epitaph cd's 3 and 4) and the way Fripp plays his guitar is sometimes sloppy.
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Jimmy Page often held his guitar close to his knee caps. The fact that many of his finger stretching methods were technical to play is what caused him problems when performing live. He would try to do something that he understood the science of but displayed sloppiness. Playing the guitar low to the knee area takes away from your dexterity in the arm motion and picking hand. Rock N' Roll is the art of imperfection but there are also things called practices Muddy Waters or even Chuck Berry are often placed in this category dismissing the fact that much of what they did was perfected.You have to do both and at the right time. I had thought in Page's situation that the knee cap level was the reason until I heard the studio version of "Heartbreaker"
My deal is that I heard his playing with Sonny Boy Williamson in 64' and then decent stuff with the Yardbirds. Then when I heard Heartbreaker....I was turned off by the sound and style of his playing.....Plain and simple....he sounded like a 12 year old guitar student who was frustrated with the Pentatonic scale. It's just an observation out of interest over the years. No big deal. Every musician has flaws of some kind but, Page is often defended in this area without honest explanation as to what was going on with his inability to block strings while playing.
It is easier to play something on guitar while sitting but, then again it depends on what you are playing. As to why Page became this way is a mystery. Many folks just do not hear it or feel comfortable discussing it. But if you've played his songs for years, it doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure it out. It';s not a cut against Page, as I said before....he was well schooled and gave lessons to Jeff Beck.....he had mastered acoustic guitar styles and was impeccable at that. He was friends with Sandy Denny in Art school for Christ Sake and probably jammed or worked with some great guitarists through her connection. He was a strange bird because he would write something like.....a signature passage with long stretches and either just getting out the notes or slopping it up causing it to sound like a train wreck. This was only on electric guitar. Then he would pick up the acoustic at a Zep show and blow my mind for about 15 minutes. Figure that one out? It's a bit like Jimi Hendrix at Isle of Wight where the guitar is so out of tune and his solo's suffer from weakness of the hand. He is so great to me on Electric Ladyland but then on Isle of Wight he sounds a bit destroyed. Like with Page and all the electric solos that he did pull off in the studio, I would back in the 70's work to perfection but,....then I would see him live and he would slop it up almost everytime.I'm just being honest ....I could never understand that reality. Maybe he was drinking Jack Daniels? .
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I agree with you in most of your post, and that i expect from the members of PA, a well detailed reason and with respect to Page.
I think that not only to much Jack Daniels but also to much heroine, specially in the 77 tour.
That knee cap level is something that i never understand why?...
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AerosolKid74
Forum Groupie
Joined: May 20 2010
Location: Northampton
Status: Offline
Points: 46
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Posted: June 09 2010 at 12:49 |
I don't know you but i want to hi five you
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Prog Rock: Founded on a fundamental misunderstanding of the word virtuoso.
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CyberDiablo
Forum Senior Member
Joined: June 08 2010
Location: Turkey
Status: Offline
Points: 252
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Posted: June 08 2010 at 13:39 |
Conor Fynes wrote:
Fripp's big thing is the 'schizophrenic' atonal sort of playing.
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This is why I like him.
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Music is some kind of art.
-- Anonymous
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WalterDigsTunes
Forum Senior Member
Joined: September 11 2007
Location: SanDiegoTijuana
Status: Offline
Points: 4373
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Posted: June 08 2010 at 13:38 |
CyberDiablo wrote:
Page is somewhat better in playing guitar, but that's all.
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He's sloppy and just works the blues scale. How is that good?
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Conor Fynes
Prog Reviewer
Joined: February 11 2009
Location: Vancouver, CA
Status: Offline
Points: 3196
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Posted: June 08 2010 at 13:35 |
Page has been more of an influence on me and is alot more versatile. Fripp's big thing is the 'schizophrenic' atonal sort of playing. Page takes the cake for me I think.
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CyberDiablo
Forum Senior Member
Joined: June 08 2010
Location: Turkey
Status: Offline
Points: 252
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Posted: June 08 2010 at 13:30 |
Oh, come on! This is a prog rock forum, what do you expect them to say? No matter what Fripp is always better in "artistic" way. Page is somewhat better in playing guitar, but that's all.
Edited by CyberDiablo - June 08 2010 at 13:30
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CinemaZebra
Forum Senior Member
Joined: March 13 2010
Location: Ancient Rome
Status: Offline
Points: 6795
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Posted: June 08 2010 at 13:28 |
This is the easiest poll in the history of polls. An overrated thief who relies on posing rather than technique to achieve fame versus an incredibly innovative master of the string who has influenced countless other musicians.
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harmonium.ro
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator / Retired Admin
Joined: August 18 2008
Location: Anna Calvi
Status: Offline
Points: 22989
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Posted: June 08 2010 at 08:44 |
I think Fripp would do a great "Since I've Been Loving You" version, but a very different one, colder, more melancholic, though not necessarily less intense
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TODDLER
Forum Senior Member
VIP Member
Joined: August 28 2009
Location: Vineland, N.J.
Status: Offline
Points: 3126
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Posted: June 08 2010 at 08:40 |
Malve87 wrote:
AerosolKid74 wrote:
Don't like Page, he's alright but could he play Lark's Tongues in Aspic, he can't be compared to Fripp |
Well I voted Fripp, but could Fripp play "Since I've been Loving You" without sounding like a robot?
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If you study guitar for 40 years, hear every live K,C, recording, play almost every Fripp solo available to you, ......you would most certainly have the logical impression that Fripp will not and cannot play the blues Just how true is that? Even the experienced player does not know for sure...as Fripp might shock us all one day! To me,....the bluesy feel of Fripp turns up on the David Bowie Berlin period recordings.You can feel Fripp's soul in those solo's of his....which differ from K.C. His first bad break or bad impression with the blues was his dreadful experience in his youth when Boz, Wallace, and Collins wanted to turn K.C into a blues or R&B outfit. Fripp having knowledge of jazz guitar fits in occasionally but not with the style of blues the other 3 members of the Islands camp desired to play..
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Malve87
Forum Senior Member
Joined: December 19 2005
Location: Genova, Italy
Status: Offline
Points: 252
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Posted: June 07 2010 at 12:38 |
AerosolKid74 wrote:
Don't like Page, he's alright but could he play Lark's Tongues in Aspic, he can't be compared to Fripp |
Well I voted Fripp, but could Fripp play "Since I've been Loving You" without sounding like a robot?
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TODDLER
Forum Senior Member
VIP Member
Joined: August 28 2009
Location: Vineland, N.J.
Status: Offline
Points: 3126
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Posted: June 01 2010 at 14:36 |
Alberto Muņoz wrote:
Page was sloppy sometimes for the lifestyle of rock musicians who climb to the superstardom.
Fripp on the other hand is a very regimental guy not only guitarrist but guy.
Page are flamboyant on Stage, Fripp is always sitting quietly playing his guitar, so it's easy not to be sloppy when you are sitting.
For example let see the Famous acoustic side of Zeppelin, did Page was sloppy ? i think not.
So it's hard to compare two guitarrist that had different approach to the music.
I wonder how many of you have listen to live recordings of KC in the 70's, for example i hear the Plumptom Festival in 1969, (check the epitaph cd's 3 and 4) and the way Fripp plays his guitar is sometimes sloppy.
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Jimmy Page often held his guitar close to his knee caps. The fact that many of his finger stretching methods were technical to play is what caused him problems when performing live. He would try to do something that he understood the science of but displayed sloppiness. Playing the guitar low to the knee area takes away from your dexterity in the arm motion and picking hand. Rock N' Roll is the art of imperfection but there are also things called practices Muddy Waters or even Chuck Berry are often placed in this category dismissing the fact that much of what they did was perfected.You have to do both and at the right time. I had thought in Page's situation that the knee cap level was the reason until I heard the studio version of "Heartbreaker"
My deal is that I heard his playing with Sonny Boy Williamson in 64' and then decent stuff with the Yardbirds. Then when I heard Heartbreaker....I was turned off by the sound and style of his playing.....Plain and simple....he sounded like a 12 year old guitar student who was frustrated with the Pentatonic scale. It's just an observation out of interest over the years. No big deal. Every musician has flaws of some kind but, Page is often defended in this area without honest explanation as to what was going on with his inability to block strings while playing.
It is easier to play something on guitar while sitting but, then again it depends on what you are playing. As to why Page became this way is a mystery. Many folks just do not hear it or feel comfortable discussing it. But if you've played his songs for years, it doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure it out. It';s not a cut against Page, as I said before....he was well schooled and gave lessons to Jeff Beck.....he had mastered acoustic guitar styles and was impeccable at that. He was friends with Sandy Denny in Art school for Christ Sake and probably jammed or worked with some great guitarists through her connection. He was a strange bird because he would write something like.....a signature passage with long stretches and either just getting out the notes or slopping it up causing it to sound like a train wreck. This was only on electric guitar. Then he would pick up the acoustic at a Zep show and blow my mind for about 15 minutes. Figure that one out? It's a bit like Jimi Hendrix at Isle of Wight where the guitar is so out of tune and his solo's suffer from weakness of the hand. He is so great to me on Electric Ladyland but then on Isle of Wight he sounds a bit destroyed. Like with Page and all the electric solos that he did pull off in the studio, I would back in the 70's work to perfection but,....then I would see him live and he would slop it up almost everytime.I'm just being honest ....I could never understand that reality. Maybe he was drinking Jack Daniels? .
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Alberto Muņoz
Forum Senior Member
Joined: July 26 2006
Location: Mexico
Status: Offline
Points: 3577
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Posted: May 21 2010 at 18:21 |
Page was sloppy sometimes for the lifestyle of rock musicians who climb to the superstardom.
Fripp on the other hand is a very regimental guy not only guitarrist but guy.
Page are flamboyant on Stage, Fripp is always sitting quietly playing his guitar, so it's easy not to be sloppy when you are sitting.
For example let see the Famous acoustic side of Zeppelin, did Page was sloppy ? i think not.
So it's hard to compare two guitarrist that had different approach to the music.
I wonder how many of you have listen to live recordings of KC in the 70's, for example i hear the Plumptom Festival in 1969, (check the epitaph cd's 3 and 4) and the way Fripp plays his guitar is sometimes sloppy.
Edited by Alberto Muņoz - May 21 2010 at 18:26
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silcir
Forum Senior Member
Joined: October 06 2009
Status: Offline
Points: 190
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Posted: May 21 2010 at 05:57 |
This was quite hard, but i went for Page in the end, Zeppelin takes the cake!
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AerosolKid74
Forum Groupie
Joined: May 20 2010
Location: Northampton
Status: Offline
Points: 46
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Posted: May 20 2010 at 14:09 |
Don't like Page, he's alright but could he play Lark's Tongues in Aspic, he can't be compared to Fripp
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Progist
Forum Senior Member
Joined: April 28 2010
Location: Norfolk UK
Status: Offline
Points: 251
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Posted: May 17 2010 at 14:40 |
I love Fripp, that's all I gotta say
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ko
Forum Senior Member
Joined: November 09 2009
Status: Offline
Points: 314
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Posted: May 17 2010 at 06:29 |
progpositivity wrote:
Nothing against Page, and he did have a little Progginess in him from time to time... but if he defeats Fripp
I will immediately cancel my membership with PA. |
+1
Edited by ko - May 17 2010 at 06:30
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boo boo
Forum Senior Member
Joined: June 28 2005
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 905
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Posted: May 16 2010 at 02:17 |
You know that old phrase, apples and oranges? Well this is more like bananas and watermelons.
I can't choose. And please don't knock on Page for being sloppy. He played for Led Zeppelin not a symphony orchestra, everyone in Zep were extremely talented but technical proficiency is not what they were about. It's better to throw a little slop in when it's rock n roll.
Edited by boo boo - May 16 2010 at 02:22
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TODDLER
Forum Senior Member
VIP Member
Joined: August 28 2009
Location: Vineland, N.J.
Status: Offline
Points: 3126
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Posted: April 30 2010 at 09:53 |
Fripp has an old school jazz style mastered in 2 areas. The phrasing of the left hand and the alternate picking technique of the right hand. He did study with an older jazz guitarists when he was young. He also has an amazing right hand finger picking style and has indulged in classical pieces. He is such an amazing clean player and most likely has all of his life, corrected flaws of his own upon first sight.
Page on the other hand was a bit of a slacker. It hurts me to say that because his guitar work with the Yardbirds was decent. His lead electric guitar work with Zeppelin was choppy and for one reason or the other .....take notice of how he refuses to block the guitar strings with his right or even left hand, causing everything to ring out like sloppy distorted noise which hails over the one string in particular that he is playing lead on. "Heartbreaker" in particular. But then again, I heard a recording of Page playing straight and clean at Sonny Boy Williamson sessions in the early 60's and it didn't sound at all like the Jimmy Page we all know from the Zep camp. He was very precise and not choppy in any sense. He mastered various finger picking techniques on acoustic along with his vast knowledge on ethnic open tunings. There is no doubt in my mind that he could have mastered the technical side of guitar playing but for some reason lost much of his dexterity as the years progressed on. Maybe when he was very young and doing session work his playing was of an outstanding nature. Jeff Beck studied with Jimmy Page years ago and it seems that whatever Page was teaching students did not remain with him as a learning tool and he regressed as a player.
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Hoodlum
Forum Newbie
Joined: April 29 2010
Status: Offline
Points: 25
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Posted: April 30 2010 at 09:37 |
Page is good for sure. But Fripp is just mindblowing.
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