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The Sleepwalker 
Prog Reviewer
Joined: February 03 2009
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 Topic: How I make my songs "better"
Posted: September 07 2009 at 16:19 |
 zachfive wrote:
I do not think I'd enjoy the last minutes of Plague of Lighthouse Keepers if it was not preceded by the "controlled chaos" that is the sound of VDGG.
The above is only one example of many. I believe all parts of a song are integral when listening to music.
If I may quote Satan from South Park B.L.U, "But what is evil anyway? It is reason to the rhyme; without evil there could be no good, so it must be good to be evil sometime."
Evil being the "bad" or "not-liked" parts of songs. Consonance and dissonance people... we need both.
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I completely agree.
Another good example of this is Willow Farm from Genesis' Supper's Ready. The part is right in the middle of the suite, and that's excactly the place where it fits best, it is a very unexpected turn after the somewhat melancholic How Dare I Be So Beautiful. If Willow Farm would be the final part of the suite, it would be not much of an epic ending, so I probably wouldn't have liked it. As a seperate song, it would have been some sort of laugh maybe, but it wouldn't be a strong song.
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zachfive
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Posted: September 07 2009 at 15:09 |
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I do not think I'd enjoy the last minutes of Plague of Lighthouse Keepers if it was not preceded by the "controlled chaos" that is the sound of VDGG.
The above is only one example of many. I believe all parts of a song are integral when listening to music.
If I may quote Satan from South Park B.L.U, "But what is evil anyway? It is reason to the rhyme; without evil there could be no good, so it must be good to be evil sometime."
Evil being the "bad" or "not-liked" parts of songs. Consonance and dissonance people... we need both.
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akamaisondufromage
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Posted: September 07 2009 at 15:03 |
I didn't read the whole thread I edited it to make it shorter and easier to understand (I might have missed a few things though)
I think
I must be weird : whats wrong with Moonshine? And whats wrong with Oh Bla di ? ^^ damn beat me to it 
Maybe you prefer popmusic? 
I think
Editing Comfortably Numb is potentially madness part of the enjoyment is surely the expectation. Why not just listen to the guitar solo? I think it might just lose some of its apeal pretty quickly.
But do what you will
Edited by akamaisondufromage - September 07 2009 at 15:04
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Help me I'm falling!
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Big Ears
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Posted: September 07 2009 at 14:51 |
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Obladi Oblada by the Beatles on the White Album is great, Revolution No. 9 on the same album is rubbish. Marmalade's version of the former is good too.
Edited by Big Ears - September 07 2009 at 14:52
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Dean
Special Collaborator
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Joined: May 13 2007
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Posted: September 07 2009 at 14:09 |
I don't believe in blasphemy, so "no".
I don't care what you do with the music in the privacy of your own home - cut it, chop it, play it backwards, play it at double speed, whatever, if that turns you on go for it, if it is "better" for you then fine. I just have no desire to hear it because if I wanted a cut version of I Am The Sun, I'd listen to the officially released cut version.
You asked "What do you think?" - I answered. 
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What?
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Juan Dayatatime
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Joined: September 03 2009
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Points: 12
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Posted: September 07 2009 at 13:12 |
Dean wrote:
Juan Dayatatime wrote:
Bit strong, but to each his own. Now I'm glad I didn't mention my habit of overdubbing (some of )Roine's solos with me on the banjo!!
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You take a hatchet to someone else's creative work and then claim that you've "made it better". Philistine isn't strong enough. |
I'm not getting dragged into a tit for tat encounter so this will be MY last words on this subject. Hyperbole aside, your last missive is just plainly incorrect. I don't "claim" to make them better...I do make them better....to me! Music is subjective after all. I know i would rather listen to my edited version of "I AM THE SUN" than the original. What I don't understand is how you can say my version is without merit....until you actually hear it. Is that how it works in your world? B.T.W. I have joined Parts 1 & 2 together to make one joyous piece of music. Can I get a " blasphemy" from you? 
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smashwagon
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Joined: June 15 2009
Location: Tampa Bay
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Posted: September 06 2009 at 21:52 |
There's no shame in changing other peoples music to fit you better. I sometimes wish that there was a music format that kept all the channels seperate. That way the listener could mute certain parts of the music or change the volume. So many modern bands (last ten years or so) mix the vocal tracks way too low in the mix. I would love to be able to boost the vocals, mute parts where the bass goes out of tune with other instruments, etc.
Less emphasis has been given to the mixer / producer in most cases anyhow, the days of heros like Martin and Spector are pretty much over, and there shouldn't be any requirement to mix down to only right and left stereo outputs anymore.
Why listen to a three minute five note boring blues guitar solo everytime you want to listen to a particular song when what you love about the song is the vocal harmonies and chord progressions.
Also when a lot of bands think they are clever by spacing thier tracks together with samples from thier favorite films and whatnot. Do you really need to hear that right as a group of musicians are launching into an interesting bombast?
Obviously if you only like, say 30 seconds of a 20 minute song than you might as well find another band to listen to, there are lots and lots of bands. But if 30 seconds of that song are absolutely torturous to you, snip, chop, splice and tape. The musicians probably don't mind, most are just glad that you are listening and supporting them.
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A Person
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Posted: September 06 2009 at 21:11 |
Henry Plainview wrote:
I never actually liked Comfortably Numb that much. |
Me neither. The only thing I do is that I purposely never rip "Not Now John", it ruins the flow of the album, if it had been earlier in the album it might not be as bad, but it isn't that good of a song to begin with. I always think about doing the same thing to The Grand Viziers' Garden Party, but I always rip it anyway. I would never edit a song though, except to paste them together, but only if it makes sense, like the first twenty minutes of Tarkus, or other multi-part songs like The Fountain of Lamneth.
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Henry Plainview
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Posted: September 06 2009 at 20:09 |
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I never actually liked Comfortably Numb that much.
Edited by Henry Plainview - September 06 2009 at 20:09
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if you own a sodastream i hate you
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Marty McFly
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Posted: September 06 2009 at 13:20 |
Of course it's bad. But if somebody wants to do that, you, I, we can't stop him. But can you imagine how many people were doing this ?
How many ARE doing this ?
For me, I'm glad that I listen full tracks, full albums.
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There's a point where "avant-garde" and "experimental" becomes "terrible" and "pointless," -Andyman1125 on Lulu  Even my
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stonebeard
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Posted: September 06 2009 at 12:33 |
Republican's more like it.  (Though I don't actually care. The joke's what counts.)
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Dean
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Joined: May 13 2007
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Posted: September 06 2009 at 12:29 |
Juan Dayatatime wrote:
Bit strong, but to each his own. Now I'm glad I didn't mention my habit of overdubbing (some of )Roine's solos with me on the banjo!!
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You take a hatchet to someone else's creative work and then claim that you've "made it better". Philistine isn't strong enough.
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What?
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stonebeard
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Joined: May 27 2005
Location: NE Indiana
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Posted: September 06 2009 at 12:21 |
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That's so blasphemous and potentially troll-worthy to some on ProgArchives I'm positively giggling with the thought of their reactions to it.
:)
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Juan Dayatatime
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Joined: September 03 2009
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Points: 12
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Posted: September 06 2009 at 12:14 |
Bit strong, but to each his own. Now I'm glad I didn't mention my habit of overdubbing (some of )Roine's solos with me on the banjo!!
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Juan Dayatatime
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Posted: September 06 2009 at 12:09 |
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I didn't say "I" was the purist.
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Dean
Special Collaborator
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Joined: May 13 2007
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Posted: September 06 2009 at 06:04 |
Juan Dayatatime wrote:
I edited "Comfortably Numb" (P.U.L.S.E.) today. 1 verse,1 chorus and straight into THAT guitar solo! The integrity of the structure wasn't compromised but (for this version) there's too much starter with the entree.
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You sir, are a philistine. 
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What?
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Marty McFly
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Posted: September 06 2009 at 04:40 |
Pure in way as concentrate juice for example. If somebody seeks just melody, not middle improvisation & jam parts, he will either abandon whole song, or skip these parts/edit them, to listen only these concentrated. Maybe I'm using bad word by presuming that pure = concentrate. Take for example song The Flower King, which is about 14 minutes long. Singing is for first 3-4 and last 3 minutes. The rest, guitar solos. I don't want to be devil's advocate, I just know that you can't tell people what's good and what they should do.
I used to skip, but don't do it anymore. I grow tired from these dense (as all main melodic music was for few minutes instead of 10min) songs and now I seek and enjoy only full songs. And not only song, I learned to listen full albums too. Pure music fan - don't skip/edit Pure (concentrated) music - edited song don't mix these two terms You can say that I'm cured, just like former junkies. And I'm aware of what I did wrong.
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There's a point where "avant-garde" and "experimental" becomes "terrible" and "pointless," -Andyman1125 on Lulu Even my
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Henry Plainview
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Posted: September 05 2009 at 16:36 |
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Purist? Editing out sections of songs is the least purist thing I can think of.
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if you own a sodastream i hate you
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Juan Dayatatime
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Posted: September 05 2009 at 14:11 |
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A bit pedantic but you are correct.
I would imagine that if I started a topic entitled "HOW I MAKE SONGS BETTER" or "HOW I MAKE OTHER PEOPLE'S SONGS BETTER", the discussion would have become a tad more personal.
I inserted the "MY" quite deliberately.
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JD
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Location: Canada
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Posted: September 05 2009 at 09:36 |
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Strictly speaking, it doesn't sound like you are talking about 'your' songs, but songs by others. That being said I have done a similar type of editing with the Queens of the Stone Age's first album. I found the radio chatter between songs to be very annoying and there were several songs which I felt were not worthy of being on the album. So I did my post production editing thing and created what I thought was a much stronger album. Of course that's just my opinion. Others might feel as though I've ruined the work by chopping it up and leaving out songs. But at the end of the day I'm the one who gets to listen to it so I like it better.
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How I make my songs "better"
