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The Pessimist View Drop Down

Prog Reviewer

Joined: June 13 2007
Location: United Kingdom
Status: Offline
Points: 3834

Topic: My Progressive Metal Music
Posted: March 20 2009 at 09:57

Nah man, it's no issue. I'm actually going to send all the tracks to my friend to quantise on cubase, as I've only got Cool Edit Pro. Does the job of recording, but you can't quantise on it unfortunately. When that is done I will re-upload the music. I'm currently in the process of re-uploading at the moment as I've remastered the whole this (made the bass and drums louder and bassier and the guitar slightly bassier and quieter). Have another listen in about an hour or so.

"Market value is irrelevant to intrinsic value."

Arnold Schoenberg

Certif1ed

Special Collaborator

Honorary Collaborator

Joined: April 08 2004
Location: England
Status: Offline
Points: 7559

Posted: March 20 2009 at 08:33

I mean more generally; it could be a personal thing, but most of the time I dont feel your timing - it's like I want parts of riffs to be slightly ahead of time to give extra attack, or some of the short notes following dotted ones to be more "grasped" (shortened)

Think of it a bit like quantisation.

There are more specific examples, like the one you mention, and when the first riff is recapitulated, but generally, I feel that the rhythm guitar is a little on the lazy side in the sections before the final riff.

Feel free to completely disagree - this is just my interpretation of how I think your music should be, which is probably completely off the mark

The important thing is not to stop questioning.

The Pessimist View Drop Down

Prog Reviewer

Joined: June 13 2007
Location: United Kingdom
Status: Offline
Points: 3834

Posted: March 19 2009 at 18:12

Thanks for the technical advise guys. To Certif1ed, the only loose bit i can detect is when the third riff comes in for the second time. Is that the part you were getting at?

"Market value is irrelevant to intrinsic value."

Arnold Schoenberg

Certif1ed

Special Collaborator

Honorary Collaborator

Joined: April 08 2004
Location: England
Status: Offline
Points: 7559

Posted: March 19 2009 at 13:21

Interesting piece - it reminds me of Lucifer Sam (Piper at the Gates of Dawn).

Watch your timing - if you're going head to head with tech/prog metal bands, then you need to be a bit tighter.

It's much tighter than any of my stuff, but I don't care enough to do anything about it...

My last observation comes from a dedicated basshead; There's not enough bottom end. I can't feel the bass guitar - I hear it, but it doesn't make my stomach feel like it's turning inside out, which is how I like it. The kick also lacks the lower freqs, and makes the piece seem rather "lite".

Don't get me wrong - I like the riffs; this would almost make a good instrumental section as it stands, with a bit of tasteful soloing - and I can hear the dark sound you're aiming for (at least, my interpretation of the dark sound), and low freqs are your friend here. To me, it sounds like you rolled everything off at 160hz or something - take it back to 40 if that's the case, or boost the kick at 40 and the bass guitar between 80-160hz.

That'll get your neighbours trinkets sliding off the shelves!

The important thing is not to stop questioning.

moshkito

Forum Senior Member

Joined: January 04 2007
Location: Grok City
Status: Offline
Points: 17510

Posted: March 18 2009 at 12:00

Hi,

If I may make a suggestion ... and you already know this from posting here ... do not describe/justify your music ...

Create music ... let it be you ... and leave the description to others.

You can't satisfy everyone anyway ... and if you want to play a heavy guitar in this passage here and there, it should not be because you heard Metalica do it, or Johnny Limpnutz do it ... but because it has strength and meaning for you to do it.

Without that depth .. you will not be able to go "further" than just another copy. You know that already.

Your music should be about your heart and feeling ... and not " ... Technical Death Metal, Post-Metal, Progressive Rock and Baroque Music ..." anything else will make you just another copy of the same top ten out there ... you choose!

Negoba

Prog Reviewer

Joined: July 24 2008
Location: Big Muddy
Status: Offline
Points: 5208

Posted: March 18 2009 at 09:02

This song has both more texture and groove than a lot of death metal. I see alot of potential here. I'm not a fan of straight death metal, I like things more like Devy or Cynic where harsh vocals are used as a texture element rather than a lead element.

The end is heavy enough, of course it fades on this version, and I'm left wanting more, which is a good thing!

BTW, guitars a little down and drums a little up in the mix on the final product. But this sounds good for the stage it's at, you'll have to change everything once the vocals are in anyway.

One thing I'd also suggest is that when you want to sound a little more heavy and aggressive rather than more of the sludge type of metal (this is somewhere in between) really concentrate on being on top of the beat so the music is pushing forward. You can actually cheat on an electronic recording surface by just moving the drums up a few clicks and see what you think. Sometimes that works and sometimes it doesn't, but it's livened up tracks for me in the past.

Overall this is awesome, I really look forward to hearing where you go with it.

You are quite a fine person, and I am very fond of you. But you are only quite a little fellow, in a wide world, after all.

The Pessimist View Drop Down

Prog Reviewer

Joined: June 13 2007
Location: United Kingdom
Status: Offline
Points: 3834

Posted: March 17 2009 at 17:38

Well now you mention it that is a standout track in the fact that it's not as dark as the rest and it's instrumental. Quite mellow in comparison to the rest of the album, but hey, that ending is pretty heavy right?

"Market value is irrelevant to intrinsic value."

Arnold Schoenberg

Negoba

Prog Reviewer

Joined: July 24 2008
Location: Big Muddy
Status: Offline
Points: 5208

Posted: March 17 2009 at 12:55

Hey man, I really like it. Very solid rhythmically and some nice tones thrown in there. I'd actually hate to hear growls over that, I'm hearing more of a Helmet-type vocal or something....Heck it's great stuff and your vision should prevail. Nice work.

You are quite a fine person, and I am very fond of you. But you are only quite a little fellow, in a wide world, after all.

The Pessimist View Drop Down

Prog Reviewer

Joined: June 13 2007
Location: United Kingdom
Status: Offline
Points: 3834

Posted: March 15 2009 at 18:07

By the way, I should be recording some vocals this friday, so there will be another installment on its way Thumbs Up

"Market value is irrelevant to intrinsic value."

Arnold Schoenberg

The Pessimist View Drop Down

Prog Reviewer

Joined: June 13 2007
Location: United Kingdom
Status: Offline
Points: 3834

Posted: March 15 2009 at 18:06

Well I'm writing an album. It's an approximately 10 track long progressive metal concept album about a life-changing drug-induced dream I had a while back (not condoning drugs in anyway by the way, drugs are bad, m'kay). In a nutshell, it's progressive metal, bit quite dark and quite heavy with some growling.

Pictures In Mirrors (Part 2).mp3

Or to download...

Admittedly, it's not the most technical, brutal, or technically brutal song off the album bit it's got a few enjoyable riffs in there.

Enjoy

Edit: I took some advice let's say. The songs are now better produced, and I'm sick of labelling music so much.

Edited by The Pessimist - March 22 2009 at 17:39

"Market value is irrelevant to intrinsic value."

Arnold Schoenberg

Author	Message Topic Search Topic Options Post Reply Create New Topic Printable Version Translate Topic
The Pessimist Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Reviewer page Prog Reviewer Joined: June 13 2007 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 3834	Topic: My Progressive Metal Music Posted: March 20 2009 at 09:57
	Nah man, it's no issue. I'm actually going to send all the tracks to my friend to quantise on cubase, as I've only got Cool Edit Pro. Does the job of recording, but you can't quantise on it unfortunately. When that is done I will re-upload the music. I'm currently in the process of re-uploading at the moment as I've remastered the whole this (made the bass and drums louder and bassier and the guitar slightly bassier and quieter). Have another listen in about an hour or so.
	"Market value is irrelevant to intrinsic value." Arnold Schoenberg

Certif1ed Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Reviewer page Special Collaborator Honorary Collaborator Joined: April 08 2004 Location: England Status: Offline Points: 7559	Posted: March 20 2009 at 08:33
	I mean more generally; it could be a personal thing, but most of the time I dont feel your timing - it's like I want parts of riffs to be slightly ahead of time to give extra attack, or some of the short notes following dotted ones to be more "grasped" (shortened) Think of it a bit like quantisation. There are more specific examples, like the one you mention, and when the first riff is recapitulated, but generally, I feel that the rhythm guitar is a little on the lazy side in the sections before the final riff. Feel free to completely disagree - this is just my interpretation of how I think your music should be, which is probably completely off the mark
	The important thing is not to stop questioning.

The Pessimist Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Reviewer page Prog Reviewer Joined: June 13 2007 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 3834	Posted: March 19 2009 at 18:12
	Thanks for the technical advise guys. To Certif1ed, the only loose bit i can detect is when the third riff comes in for the second time. Is that the part you were getting at?
	"Market value is irrelevant to intrinsic value." Arnold Schoenberg

Certif1ed Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Reviewer page Special Collaborator Honorary Collaborator Joined: April 08 2004 Location: England Status: Offline Points: 7559	Posted: March 19 2009 at 13:21
	Interesting piece - it reminds me of Lucifer Sam (Piper at the Gates of Dawn). Watch your timing - if you're going head to head with tech/prog metal bands, then you need to be a bit tighter. It's much tighter than any of my stuff, but I don't care enough to do anything about it... My last observation comes from a dedicated basshead; There's not enough bottom end. I can't feel the bass guitar - I hear it, but it doesn't make my stomach feel like it's turning inside out, which is how I like it. The kick also lacks the lower freqs, and makes the piece seem rather "lite". Don't get me wrong - I like the riffs; this would almost make a good instrumental section as it stands, with a bit of tasteful soloing - and I can hear the dark sound you're aiming for (at least, my interpretation of the dark sound), and low freqs are your friend here. To me, it sounds like you rolled everything off at 160hz or something - take it back to 40 if that's the case, or boost the kick at 40 and the bass guitar between 80-160hz. That'll get your neighbours trinkets sliding off the shelves!
	The important thing is not to stop questioning.

moshkito Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Reviewer page Forum Senior Member Joined: January 04 2007 Location: Grok City Status: Offline Points: 17510	Posted: March 18 2009 at 12:00
	Hi, If I may make a suggestion ... and you already know this from posting here ... do not describe/justify your music ... Create music ... let it be you ... and leave the description to others. You can't satisfy everyone anyway ... and if you want to play a heavy guitar in this passage here and there, it should not be because you heard Metalica do it, or Johnny Limpnutz do it ... but because it has strength and meaning for you to do it. Without that depth .. you will not be able to go "further" than just another copy. You know that already. Your music should be about your heart and feeling ... and not " ... Technical Death Metal, Post-Metal, Progressive Rock and Baroque Music ..." anything else will make you just another copy of the same top ten out there ... you choose!

Negoba Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Reviewer page Prog Reviewer Joined: July 24 2008 Location: Big Muddy Status: Offline Points: 5208	Posted: March 18 2009 at 09:02
	This song has both more texture and groove than a lot of death metal. I see alot of potential here. I'm not a fan of straight death metal, I like things more like Devy or Cynic where harsh vocals are used as a texture element rather than a lead element. The end is heavy enough, of course it fades on this version, and I'm left wanting more, which is a good thing! BTW, guitars a little down and drums a little up in the mix on the final product. But this sounds good for the stage it's at, you'll have to change everything once the vocals are in anyway. One thing I'd also suggest is that when you want to sound a little more heavy and aggressive rather than more of the sludge type of metal (this is somewhere in between) really concentrate on being on top of the beat so the music is pushing forward. You can actually cheat on an electronic recording surface by just moving the drums up a few clicks and see what you think. Sometimes that works and sometimes it doesn't, but it's livened up tracks for me in the past. Overall this is awesome, I really look forward to hearing where you go with it.
	You are quite a fine person, and I am very fond of you. But you are only quite a little fellow, in a wide world, after all.

The Pessimist Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Reviewer page Prog Reviewer Joined: June 13 2007 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 3834	Posted: March 17 2009 at 17:38
	Well now you mention it that is a standout track in the fact that it's not as dark as the rest and it's instrumental. Quite mellow in comparison to the rest of the album, but hey, that ending is pretty heavy right?
	"Market value is irrelevant to intrinsic value." Arnold Schoenberg

Negoba Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Reviewer page Prog Reviewer Joined: July 24 2008 Location: Big Muddy Status: Offline Points: 5208	Posted: March 17 2009 at 12:55
	Hey man, I really like it. Very solid rhythmically and some nice tones thrown in there. I'd actually hate to hear growls over that, I'm hearing more of a Helmet-type vocal or something....Heck it's great stuff and your vision should prevail. Nice work.
	You are quite a fine person, and I am very fond of you. But you are only quite a little fellow, in a wide world, after all.

The Pessimist Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Reviewer page Prog Reviewer Joined: June 13 2007 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 3834	Posted: March 15 2009 at 18:07
	By the way, I should be recording some vocals this friday, so there will be another installment on its way
	"Market value is irrelevant to intrinsic value." Arnold Schoenberg

The Pessimist Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Reviewer page Prog Reviewer Joined: June 13 2007 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 3834	Posted: March 15 2009 at 18:06
	Well I'm writing an album. It's an approximately 10 track long progressive metal concept album about a life-changing drug-induced dream I had a while back (not condoning drugs in anyway by the way, drugs are bad, m'kay). In a nutshell, it's progressive metal, bit quite dark and quite heavy with some growling. Pictures In Mirrors (Part 2).mp3 Or to download... Admittedly, it's not the most technical, brutal, or technically brutal song off the album bit it's got a few enjoyable riffs in there. Enjoy Edit: I took some advice let's say. The songs are now better produced, and I'm sick of labelling music so much. Edited by The Pessimist - March 22 2009 at 17:39
	"Market value is irrelevant to intrinsic value." Arnold Schoenberg