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Dean View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Topic: The 10th Dimension?
    Posted: March 06 2009 at 13:11
Originally posted by BaldFriede BaldFriede wrote:

Originally posted by Dean Dean wrote:

Originally posted by BaldFriede BaldFriede wrote:

Actually we can and will appear in several places to a flatlander. Just imagine you only hold the five fingers of a hand into flatland; they will not even seem to be connected for a flatlander; all they will see are five separate circles.
Also imagine flatland to be slightly curved in three-dimensional space.. We could then have part of a foot and part of a thigh in flatland at the same time, provided flatland crossed the leg twice the way it is folded up.
Yes this is correct - except you are still restricted by the limitations of your dimensions and the flatlanders would be able to determine the extent of those limitations - your finger tips can exist in five locations, but not any five locations - repeated observations by the flatlanders would soon discover a pattern and relationship and hence deduce an "other-dimension" connection between them. Of course they would never be able to prove their theories, but the empirical data would support them.

Did you completely think through what you said? Just think what that would mean for our own three dimensions: Any phenomena in which several "seemingly "separated" entities appear close together all the time might be connected in a higher dimension then. Like for example an atom and its electrons (let's notn take quantum interpretations of atoms into account here for simplicity's sake).
Let's not extrapolate things too wildly in the opposite direction. Wink 
 
I did say that the relationships observed by the Flatlanders could result in them drawing conclusions and theories and we would know whether those theories were true, but they would not.
 
They could use their theories to predict things from their findings - for example: if they found four contact points within a given area, they would be able to say that the possible location of the fifth (should it appear) could not be more than a few mm away; If they measured the contact are of each point and compared that to a database they would be able to calculate the relative size of the missing digit and use that data to predict where the contact point could be to a high degree of accuracy.
 
What they could not predict would be whether the missing finger tip would make contact or not, they also would not be able to work out what the physical connection between the points would be, whether it were a 3rd dimensional structure, a force or simply magic. They could not deduce a hand from the finger tips alone.
 
This is very much like what is being proposed by physicists and cosmologists. They gather data, make theories and use those theories to make predictions. What they cannot do is state emphatically that the theories are truths - all they can say is the theory fits the known data.
 
But yes, if we observed a phenomena in which several "seemingly separated" entities appear close together all the time then we could speculate that they might be connected in a higher dimension. The problem for us is visualising that higher dimension and determining what that connective structure and/or force is, or is likely to be.
 
However, the first thing we would do would be to experiment on them, probably by throwing rocks at them. Wink
 
 
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 06 2009 at 12:41
Originally posted by Dean Dean wrote:

Originally posted by BaldFriede BaldFriede wrote:

Actually we can and will appear in several places to a flatlander. Just imagine you only hold the five fingers of a hand into flatland; they will not even seem to be connected for a flatlander; all they will see are five separate circles.
Also imagine flatland to be slightly curved in three-dimensional space.. We could then have part of a foot and part of a thigh in flatland at the same time, provided flatland crossed the leg twice the way it is folded up.
Yes this is correct - except you are still restricted by the limitations of your dimensions and the flatlanders would be able to determine the extent of those limitations - your finger tips can exist in five locations, but not any five locations - repeated observations by the flatlanders would soon discover a pattern and relationship and hence deduce an "other-dimension" connection between them. Of course they would never be able to prove their theories, but the empirical data would support them.

Did you completely think through what you said? Just think what that would mean for our own three dimensions: Any phenomena in which several "seemingly "separated" entities appear close together all the time might be connected in a higher dimension then. Like for example an atom and its electrons (let's not take quantum interpretations of atoms into account here for simplicity's sake).


Edited by BaldFriede - March 06 2009 at 12:47


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Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 06 2009 at 12:03
Originally posted by BaldFriede BaldFriede wrote:

Actually we can and will appear in several places to a flatlander. Just imagine you only hold the five fingers of a hand into flatland; they will not even seem to be connected for a flatlander; all they will see are five separate circles.
Also imagine flatland to be slightly curved in three-dimensional space.. We could then have part of a foot and part of a thigh in flatland at the same time, provided flatland crossed the leg twice the way it is folded up.
Yes this is correct - except you are still restricted by the limitations of your dimensions and the flatlanders would be able to determine the extent of those limitations - your finger tips can exist in five locations, but not any five locations - repeated observations by the flatlanders would soon discover a pattern and relationship and hence deduce an "other-dimension" connection between them. Of course they would never be able to prove their theories, but the empirical data would support them.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 06 2009 at 11:58
Originally posted by Gustavo Froes Gustavo Froes wrote:

Originally posted by Epignosis Epignosis wrote:

I've always been fascinated with this subject.

I'm of the opinion that God exists as a higher dimensional being.  That would explain a lot...

...like how God can be "close" to people without being seen (think of standing close to the TV while you are playing Super Mario Brothers- were Mario sentient, he might "feel" your presence but be unable to see you).


hmmm...nice exampleWink.


And hapless Mario always wonders why I "reincarnate" him as himself only to fling him into a pit of lava or into the maw of a piranha plant.  LOL
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 06 2009 at 11:58
Scientists have come up with explanations for certain quantum phenomena that require even 23 dimensions, some of which are "wrapped", however (think of the insulation of a copper wire as such a "wrapped" dimension", to give a common example for explaining what that means).


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Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 06 2009 at 11:44
Originally posted by Epignosis Epignosis wrote:

I've always been fascinated with this subject.

I'm of the opinion that God exists as a higher dimensional being.  That would explain a lot...

...like how God can be "close" to people without being seen (think of standing close to the TV while you are playing Super Mario Brothers- were Mario sentient, he might "feel" your presence but be unable to see you).


hmmm...nice exampleWink.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 06 2009 at 11:31
Originally posted by Dean Dean wrote:

Originally posted by Epignosis Epignosis wrote:

I've always been fascinated with this subject.

I'm of the opinion that God exists as a higher dimensional being.  That would explain a lot...

...like how God can be "close" to people without being seen (think of standing close to the TV while you are playing Super Mario Brothers- were Mario sentient, he might "feel" your presence but be unable to see you).
Interesting concept Rob - of course that would then imply the possibility of more than one god, but also one that is contained within one of the lower dimensions and whose own movement is constrained within the limitations of the higher dimensions and would have a physical presence in the lower dimensions.
 
To a flatlander we do not appear god-like, we can move from one (x,y) location to another, but we cannot appear in both locations simultaneously nor can we cannot move between them instantaneously - we are restricted by the 4th dimension - therefore a flatlander who cannot move in the 3rd dimension can perceive the 4th. Similarly, as 3D beings we would be able to perceive dimensions higher than the one we are restricted by.
 
If a higher being interacts with our space-time, then their actions would be observed by us to be limited by the dimension immediately above the one they exist in. Since all religious accounts from all the worlds religions are decidedly "cause and effect" that would imply that those gods are also constrained by the 5th dimension, even if they have freedom of movement in the 4th. Higher level beings would not be so restricted - A 5th dimensional being would not have instigated the Deluge for example.
 
Therefore if a being is restricted in the 4th dimension, (or 5th if they were deliberately capricious), then there must be infinite other beings existing in the infinite possible universes of the 6th through to 10th dimensions.
 
Unless of course, God is an 11th dimension entity and is purposely limiting their perceived actions in the lower dimensions...

Actually we can and will appear in several places to a flatlander. Just imagine you only hold the five fingers of a hand into flatland; they will not even seem to be connected for a flatlander; all they will see are five separate circles.
Also imagine flatland to be slightly curved in three-dimensional space.. We could then have part of a foot and part of a thigh in flatland at the same time, provided flatland crossed the leg twice the way it is folded up.


Edited by BaldFriede - March 06 2009 at 11:35


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Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 06 2009 at 11:07
Originally posted by Epignosis Epignosis wrote:

I've always been fascinated with this subject.

I'm of the opinion that God exists as a higher dimensional being.  That would explain a lot...

...like how God can be "close" to people without being seen (think of standing close to the TV while you are playing Super Mario Brothers- were Mario sentient, he might "feel" your presence but be unable to see you).
Interesting concept Rob - of course that would then imply the possibility of more than one god, but also one that is contained within one of the lower dimensions and whose own movement is constrained within the limitations of the higher dimensions and would have a physical presence in the lower dimensions.
 
To a flatlander we do not appear god-like, we can move from one (x,y) location to another, but we cannot appear in both locations simultaneously nor can we cannot move between them instantaneously - we are restricted by the 4th dimension - therefore a flatlander who cannot move in the 3rd dimension can perceive the 4th. Similarly, as 3D beings we would be able to perceive dimensions higher than the one we are restricted by.
 
If a higher being interacts with our space-time, then their actions would be observed by us to be limited by the dimension immediately above the one they exist in. Since all religious accounts from all the worlds religions are decidedly "cause and effect" that would imply that those gods are also constrained by the 5th dimension, even if they have freedom of movement in the 4th. Higher level beings would not be so restricted - A 5th dimensional being would not have instigated the Deluge for example.
 
Therefore if a being is restricted in the 4th dimension, (or 5th if they were deliberately capricious), then there must be infinite other beings existing in the infinite possible universes of the 6th through to 10th dimensions.
 
Unless of course, God is an 11th dimension entity and is purposely limiting their perceived actions in the lower dimensions...


Edited by Dean - March 06 2009 at 11:16
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 06 2009 at 07:39
Also makes sense as it is often said that God can see all history at once.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 06 2009 at 07:25
I've always been fascinated with this subject.

I'm of the opinion that God exists as a higher dimensional being.  That would explain a lot...

...like how God can be "close" to people without being seen (think of standing close to the TV while you are playing Super Mario Brothers- were Mario sentient, he might "feel" your presence but be unable to see you).
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 06 2009 at 07:04
I enjoyed the video, and it wasn't too hard to understand.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 06 2009 at 06:49
Originally posted by BaldFriede BaldFriede wrote:

Originally posted by Ricochet Ricochet wrote:

I only learned of two dimensions in school. There are 10?!

You experience at least three spatial dimensions and time as the fourth one in your everyday life.


Shocked!

LOL
Tongue
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 06 2009 at 06:44
Originally posted by Ricochet Ricochet wrote:

I only learned of two dimensions in school. There are 10?!

You experience at least three spatial dimensions and time as the fourth one in your everyday life.


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Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 06 2009 at 05:59
I only learned of two dimensions in school. There are 10?!
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 06 2009 at 05:51
We just ordered the book. :)


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Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 06 2009 at 05:25
I'm impressed but not convinced!
yeah
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 05 2009 at 23:18
holy christ. Mind is imploded!


It all makes sense... but I wonder if people 1000 years from now will look at this kind of theory like "the world is flat" theory
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 05 2009 at 23:05
http://www.tenthdimension.com/medialinks.php

Very interesting. A friend of mine showed this to me earlier today. Watch it and see if it gets you thinking. Or at least see if your mind implodes.LOL
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