Gothic & Prog

moonchild wrote: Marcelo wrote: There are many gothic bands closer to metal than prog (Tristania, i.e.), but some gothic bands are esentially prog: Lacrimosa, Devil Doll (gothic?) or Sopor Aeternus among others. I love that dark, sad and tetric kind of music... Anybody else?     have you heard Theatre of Tragedy?

TOT seems to me a sort of Tristania, very nice except their last cd (a kind of electronic pop   )

Yeah, there's kind of a line that can be drawn between the over-hyped modern Goth scene that Marilyn Manson is more or less responsible for and the classic goth genre that evolved out of the late-70s punk and post-punk bands (Siouxsie, Bauhaus, Joy Division, etc). The "new" goth has a big metal component, which the punk sensibility always avoided like the plague, and mostly is just commercial music marketed to suburban teenagers going through the dark phase. However, a tiny bit of it is interesting- I happen to like the ultra-heavy, ridiculously profane british band "Cradle of Filth", and even Evanescence might have been a decent band if an adult (or anyone with some talent) had written the lyrics.

My favorites among the "older" goths do include a lot of fairly experimental music, like mid-period Cure and Siouxsie, Bauhaus, Tones on Tail (bauhaus without Peter Murphy but before they became Love and Rockets), Joy Division, etc. It's not progressive rock by a long shot- for one thing, prog was one of the things these punkers were rebelling AGAINST- but it's definitely worth listening to if you appreciate different sounds. And quite a few of the bands that came out of the 4AD label, such as the often medieval Dead Can Dance, and the often symphonic This Mortal Coil, are experimental, interesting and beautiful like few other bands- my favorite band of all time, the Cocteau Twins, was part of that little movement. I'd never think of lumping them in with prog though :)

I've always been able to hear some similarities between goth (and/or post-punk) and prog, mostly in the theatrical leanings of both genres, and the desire to explore new sounds- and get new sounds out of the same old rock instruments.

I've said this before (and it wasn't original then): 90% of all music is crap, no matter what the genre. But that leaves 10% worth listening to, even if it's a style you think you hate. I can even enjoy a bit of downhome country music here and there...

danbo wrote:  I'm a huge Cure fan. Goth-pop, maybe? Like anything else, it has it's place and should be consumed in small quantities. So far, two of my daughters have gone through the GOTH phase. The music is good, some great, but the total immersion into the lifestyle is rather scary and clownish. Come on, would you hire someone with a black mohawk and fifty facial piercings to sell your products? Egad man, fall in the water and you'll sink. Is goth prog. Hhhmm, very peripheral, at best. The instrumentation, mainly synths with church organ, swirling atmospherics? I don't know. What's maani think?

hehe you didn't recougnise 17 seconds

Gothic metal is the kind of metal of bands like Therion, Within temptation, autumn, after forever, nightwish etc.
They mostly make music about nature and stuff.. and they mostly have a female singer as a frontsinger, what you said danbo.. they're a bit scary and clownish.. Wearing big dresses.. boys in leather ..
It's a bit trendy lifestyle today.. everybody who think of him/herself that he is alternative is a gothic(black dress, long hair) or punker(mohawk)... (so youre very alternative because every alternative one is alternative )

ofcourse thats just the mainstream gothic..

Marcelo wrote: There are many gothic bands closer to metal than prog (Tristania, i.e.), but some gothic bands are esentially prog: Lacrimosa, Devil Doll (gothic?) or Sopor Aeternus among others. I love that dark, sad and tetric kind of music... Anybody else?

have you heard Theatre of Tragedy?

Glass-Prison wrote: "She Sells Sanctuary" never really sounded like prog, though, it always sounded like generic heavy metal. It's a cool song, but I don't really see much 'gothicness' in it.

The Cult started as a punk band under the name Southern Death Cult. They then dropped Southern and became Death Cult (still punk). Then they dropped Death and became a bit New-wavey, after which they got out the black hair dye and lipstick and jumped on the mid eighties Goth bandwagon with their biggest selling album "Love", from which "'Sanctuary" is taken. Their next effort was just retro heavy rock, poor man's Deep Purple style.

"Love" may not sound gothic to you, but no goth worth his salt in our town was without a copy, plus teeshirt.

lucas wrote: danbo wrote:  I'm a huge Cure fan. Don't you think Echolyn's main vocalist has at times a voice that recalls Robert Smith ?

Funny, now that you mention it. There is a similarity in timbre. Smith would be better if he didn't whine so much. "Shake Dog Shake." Fav Cure tune.

Marcelo wrote: There are many gothic bands closer to metal than prog (Tristania, i.e.), but some gothic bands are esentially prog: Lacrimosa, Devil Doll (gothic?) or Sopor Aeternus among others. I love that dark, sad and tetric kind of music... Anybody else?

 Tilo Wolff and Ann Nurmi, I got every one of their albums and EPs, all fifteen of them. Since you like them check out Dargaard and Avrigus as well. Oh, and our own(American I mean) Autumn Tears. Dark Symphonies .com has a great deal on Autumn Tears

To me, I've always felt  when someone didn't know what to classify something they'd call it Gothic. Gothic has got to be one of the widest spanning sub genres around