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micky wrote: anael wrote: mmmm oh hell! Metallica? the only thing i gotta say is that people shouldn't judge the whole discography by a band (not specially Metallica) by only one proggy album, the same thing with Journey! The Who! The Doors! and some more bands......   Metallica is not a Prog band and that's it!!!! if it is, then Chicago is another prog band right?   if PA will judge a band by one album of a band's discography then please consider these bands too:   The Chicago Transit Authority Chicago Goldfrapp For The Mathematics Atlas of ID Jack Rose ES Fursaxa Majik Markers Kemialliset Ystävät Brothers of The Occult Sisterhood A Palace in Persia The Spacious Mind You Slut! Terracid Wolfmangler Rialzu Rahmann Ultima Spiaggia Grateful Dead Super Freego Frakkur Maps Sleeping People Klimt 1918   some time ago i suggest more bands such as:   Of Sinking Ships Don't Mess With Texas Radio Massacre International Dreamies Kundalini Snakes Jesu Exenogenesis San Agustin Permanent Fatal Error Ulan Bator Shibuzashirazu Orchestra Moolah Ben Reynolds Enmedio Trans Vita Express Costin Mierenau Friends In The Mountains Darryl Ways' Wolf Oneida Landing Aspects Of Physics Cotton Casino Daturah Sonna Polmo Polpo Main Timonium     thanks oh man.... first off brother... this a progressive rock site... NOT.. I repeat NOT allmusic.com.  This site is not a career retrospective site...  if someone wants to know about St. Anger.. or the black album... they can go elsewhere.  What this site does is illuminate.. or spotlight progressive rock.. and yes.. .sometimes that music comes from bands that are traditionally known as progressive rock group.  Would you like to have a site where GREAT prog rock albums are not available .. not able to be discussed or reviewed.. made available for discovery.. simply because they are not KNOWN as prog groups.  Ask yourself brother.. why are YOU here... it is for the music... or for the groups.

zafreth wrote: anael wrote: well..... i got nothing to say except that i will never have the power to do something important in PA i just wanna help and to say what i feel and now that i get your attention just a little suggestion for you guys those who have the power to do something: in June 18 2007 <------------ONE YEAR AGO!!!! i reported that a Kawabata Makoto solo album it's in the AMT discography...please, please could you remove it? http://www.progarchives.com/album.asp?id=12607 Strange opinion specially form a SC.

Agree 100%, as well as for the OPost.

micky wrote: zafreth wrote: anael wrote: well..... i got nothing to say except that i will never have the power to do something important in PA i just wanna help and to say what i feel   and now that i get your attention just a little suggestion for you guys those who have the power to do something:   in June 18 2007 <------------ONE YEAR AGO!!!! i reported that a Kawabata Makoto solo album it's in the AMT discography...please, please could you remove it?   http://www.progarchives.com/album.asp?id=12607 Strange opinion specially form a SC. we only have the power to infect ... not to amputate

anael wrote: well..... i got nothing to say except that i will never have the power to do something important in PA i just wanna help and to say what i feel   and now that i get your attention just a little suggestion for you guys those who have the power to do something:   in June 18 2007 <------------ONE YEAR AGO!!!! i reported that a Kawabata Makoto solo album it's in the AMT discography...please, please could you remove it?   http://www.progarchives.com/album.asp?id=12607

Strange opinion specially form a SC.

Kotro wrote: "we are the business of categorizing progressive rock... not the groups that made them"   But you see, Mick, that's the exact oposite of what this site has been doing since it opened. And that is a fundamental problem - the apparent need to add bands in order to add albums. Artists are not prog or pop or whatever - their albums are. What the site has been doing, and that is a reason for this whole mess, it trying to categorize people based on their product instead of the product alone: take Psychedelic/Space-Rock - two similar yet different kinds of music in one genre. Why? Would you like to bet that it was because a label was needed to classify a certain prog giant that endeavored in both genres?   I can absolutely agree with an album by Metallica, Alan Sorrenti, José Cid, Toto, Mansun, etc, being added because it is considered by the listeners as "prog". But does that mean the whole band should be added along with their entire catalogue, independently of genre, and then label the band and not the album? ProgArchives seems to think so. I have never agreed with that, but what can I do? PA is still a lot better that others prog websites out there. I just lve with it.   OK, that's my annual rant against PA organization. I'll shush now.

hahhaa..  for what it is worth.. I agree with you 100% and is why working for the site and the genre teams in particular is no walk on the beach. The way the site is set up is where you have to add artists to get to what counts... the music itself.  In a perfect world we wouldn't have to add the whole discographies.. but if PA's has taught us anything... when it comes to prog.. we ALL have different notions.  Getting bands added here can be a chore... want to take that headache.. and multiply it times a 100 and fight over individual albums.  What M@X decided was the best for the site... what people need to understand is we are adding.. and judging the music...  not the artist. Not the career.. though... unfortunately...  that is I suspect not what all do. That is where things break down.

exactly my sk.....   He is a pop artist... of the most banal dreary kind of pop that appeals to little girls.

However he made one of the ESSENTIAL prog albums ... an album highly regarded by all prog fans.. not jut fans of what came out of Italy. So .... should we have not added him. 


As I have posted time and time again....  many artists had prog phases and moved on.. and yes.. many became famous or better known (the infernal tags and labels) as something else.  Should this site not add these people and groups because they are POP artists... come on.

Kotro.. not a theory.. M@X understands this... this is not my brainchild.. just one of the few that follows and understands what he wants.   The rules are .. a prog album.. and you should be here. The problem is people want to judge a career.. and are not listening to the music.  Metallica .... they hit Prog Metal heaven with And Justice for All.. and decided they had done what they wanted.. progresssed that form as far as they thought they would or could.. and moved on.... so are they punished for having done this.  Christ... this is not a popularity contest.. we are the business of categorizing progressive rock... not the groups that made them. M@X knows that.. it is not a theory.


Edited by micky - October 18 2008 at 10:08

That's all pretty good in theory, Michael, but the fact remains that the site's working has always been built around artists (along with this disease called completionism) and not albums, as it should be. That was one of my first complaints when I arrived here 4 years ago, and all the problems I anticipated then have all became fact. Too late to solve then now...

anael wrote: mmmm oh hell! Metallica? the only thing i gotta say is that people shouldn't judge the whole discography by a band (not specially Metallica) by only one proggy album, the same thing with Journey! The Who! The Doors! and some more bands......   Metallica is not a Prog band and that's it!!!! if it is, then Chicago is another prog band right?   if PA will judge a band by one album of a band's discography then please consider these bands too:   The Chicago Transit Authority Chicago Goldfrapp For The Mathematics Atlas of ID Jack Rose ES Fursaxa Majik Markers Kemialliset Ystävät Brothers of The Occult Sisterhood A Palace in Persia The Spacious Mind You Slut! Terracid Wolfmangler Rialzu Rahmann Ultima Spiaggia Grateful Dead Super Freego Frakkur Maps Sleeping People Klimt 1918   some time ago i suggest more bands such as:   Of Sinking Ships Don't Mess With Texas Radio Massacre International Dreamies Kundalini Snakes Jesu Exenogenesis San Agustin Permanent Fatal Error Ulan Bator Shibuzashirazu Orchestra Moolah Ben Reynolds Enmedio Trans Vita Express Costin Mierenau Friends In The Mountains Darryl Ways' Wolf Oneida Landing Aspects Of Physics Cotton Casino Daturah Sonna Polmo Polpo Main Timonium     thanks

oh man.... first off brother... this a progressive rock site... NOT.. I repeat NOT allmusic.com.  This site is not a career retrospective site...  if someone wants to know about St. Anger.. or the black album... they can go elsewhere.  What this site does is illuminate.. or spotlight progressive rock.. and yes.. .sometimes that music comes from bands that are traditionally known as progressive rock group.  Would you like to have a site where GREAT prog rock albums are not available .. not able to be discussed or reviewed.. made available for discovery.. simply because they are not KNOWN as prog groups.  Ask yourself brother.. why are YOU here... it is for the music... or for the groups. 

A number of the bands you suggested are already in the database (for instance, Sleeping People, whom were added when I was responsible for the Art Rock team, therefore over a year ago, and Rialzu). Don't want to sound confrontational or anything, but I think that, before starting a thread about a topic that has been discussed to death, and about which NO ONE has ever had the nerve to do something useful (i.e. write to M@x and ask him to change the site's rules), people should check their facts.

Edited by Ghost Rider - October 18 2008 at 07:35

anael wrote: mmmm oh hell! Metallica? the only thing i gotta say is that people shouldn't judge the whole discography by a band (not specially Metallica) by only one proggy album, the same thing with Journey! The Who! The Doors! and some more bands......

Sorry, but I think that you got it wrong here. If people say that an album is "proggy", that has nothing to do with the other albums of the discography. The fact that here in the archives genres and progressiveness status is bound to the artist level is simply a technical limitation of the database architecture.