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Topic ClosedMetallica ¿Are a Progressive Rock Band?

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Poll Question: Metallica ¿Are a Progressive RockBand?
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1 [8.33%]
11 [91.67%]
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Jim Garten View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Topic: Metallica ¿Are a Progressive Rock Band?
    Posted: August 20 2008 at 03:49
We don't need three virtually identical threads people - Please use this one:

http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=50828

This one closed.

Jon Lord 1941 - 2012
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 20 2008 at 03:44
Originally posted by rushfan4 rushfan4 wrote:

Of course, people here on PA refer to Judas Priest as a thrash band and I never considered them to be thrash...
 
Priest's more recent output has certainly used thrash techniques - but the thrash techniques pretty much originated with Priest in the track "Exciter", which uses the fundamental alternate picked riffing ("thrashing" technique.
 
Thrash carries dumb connotations, but really, it's a guitar technique the same as two-handed neck tapping (as pioneered by Steve Hackett and developed by Eddie Van Halen) or sweep and alternate-picked leads(shredding) - and so many metal bands use it (including "Progressive" ones like Dream Theater, Meshuggah and Opeth), that any "dumb" connotations with the word "thrash" are in the minds of those that have them.
 
It's actually a Progressive technique, in the same way as the others I mentioned.
 
 
Metallica are a thrash metal band in EXACTLY the same way that Dream Theater or Meshuggah are.
 
They are also a Progressive Rock band in the same way.


Edited by Certif1ed - August 20 2008 at 03:46
The important thing is not to stop questioning.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 19 2008 at 23:52
Originally posted by MovingPictures07 MovingPictures07 wrote:


Don't worry, Pat and I at a minimum fire back at the heathenous Bush bashers. Wink



hey let's keep politics out of it





that's a little joke  Big%20smile


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Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 19 2008 at 23:50
They were a thrash band in 1981-1983 but in 1984 they already released some more complex pieces. Is The Call of Ktulu a thrash song? Put it on a DT record and it's progressive metal. But nah, Metallica is a very diverse metal/heavy rock band with some progressive leanings, so if you really had to put them on the site, it would definitely go to prog related, I think.

But I guess this has been discussed many times before and we all see the results.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 19 2008 at 23:39
Originally posted by NaturalScience NaturalScience wrote:

Originally posted by rushfan4 rushfan4 wrote:

^ Should the discussion be adjourned to the Suede Room? Wink


No.  Suede Room is not amused.  Wink


Don't worry, Pat and I at a minimum fire back at the heathenous Rush bashers. Wink

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 19 2008 at 23:33
^Mike, Metallica was a 100% thrash band only in ONE album... ONE. Here calling them thrash i'ts like equivalent to saying "not PA material".
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 19 2008 at 18:32
^ is it that big of a problem? I had no problem agreeing to them being a thrash band.Embarrassed
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 19 2008 at 18:31
Originally posted by zafreth zafreth wrote:

Originally posted by The T The T wrote:

The questions are wrongly stated. The question is "is metallica prog rock?" the the answers should be YES and NO... You can't add "no, THEY"RE THRASH" without adding a simple "NO" option. Your poll is biased and it has no logic whatsoever.
 
Why not???
 
No are not biased, you are biased about Metallica.
 
BTW WinterLight has stated that Metallica are a Prog Band, ask him...
 
It has nothing to do with opinion. It's pure LOGIC.
 
Translate it like this:
 
Question: "Is X a Y?"
 
Answers: " Yes, X is Y"
              
                    "No, X is NOT Y"
 
That would be a logical unbiased poll. But if the second option is :
 
                    "No, X is Z"
 
And that Z is actually almost EXCLUSIVE of Y, then you're biasing the answer. There's no way to answer "NO" in your poll without also having to agree that Metallica is thrash.
 
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 19 2008 at 16:21
Originally posted by The T The T wrote:

The questions are wrongly stated. The question is "is metallica prog rock?" the the answers should be YES and NO... You can't add "no, THEY"RE THRASH" without adding a simple "NO" option. Your poll is biased and it has no logic whatsoever.
 
Why not???
 
No are not biased, you are biased about Metallica.
 
BTW WinterLight has stated that Metallica are a Prog Band, ask him...




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Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 19 2008 at 16:08
The questions are wrongly stated. The question is "is metallica prog rock?" the the answers should be YES and NO... You can't add "no, THEY"RE THRASH" without adding a simple "NO" option. Your poll is biased and it has no logic whatsoever.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 19 2008 at 15:49
Originally posted by rushfan4 rushfan4 wrote:

^ Should the discussion be adjourned to the Suede Room? Wink


No.  Suede Room is not amused.  Wink
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 19 2008 at 15:46
^ Should the discussion be adjourned to the Suede Room? Wink It can be mixed in with miscellaneous Rush bashing and Magma worshipping.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 19 2008 at 15:44
Originally posted by zafreth zafreth wrote:

Originally posted by NaturalScience NaturalScience wrote:

I don't mean to be rude, but how many threads devoted to this band do we really need?
 
Come on, i really learned some and enjoyed  discuss the topic, and see guys like Certif1ed , WinterLight and T streching his muscles and defending his ideas... i think that is the most fantastic thing to discuss not only this theme but all for...
 
cheersTongue 


I'm glad you learned and enjoyed the discussion, but I think the discussion could be limited to a single thread, not spread across several.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 19 2008 at 15:43
Originally posted by Certif1ed Certif1ed wrote:

 
 
Progressive metal (often referred to simply as prog metal) is a sub-genre of heavy metal music which blends the powerful, guitar-driven sound of metal with the complex compositional structures, odd time signatures, and intricate instrumental playing of progressive rock.
 
Actually, it very, very rarely does this - if ever, as my recent "What is Prog?" blog shows very clearly. This is an ambition of Progressive Metal, nothing more.
 
The reality is that it's an extension of what Metallica did.
 
Some progressive metal bands are also influenced by jazz fusion and classical music.
 
Without wishing to be rude, so were Spinal Tap. And so was Cliff Burton.
 
Point me to a Prog Metal band that really shows jazz fusion influences - other than, say Spastic Ink. Bands with actual Classical influence are rarer than bands with actual Classical influence in Progressive Rock. Even Metallica had some Classical influence.
 
Like progressive rock songs, progressive metal songs are usually much longer than standard metal songs, and they are often thematically linked in concept albums.
 
Like "Master of Puppets".
 
 
As a result, progressive metal is rarely heard on mainstream radio and video programs.
 
Nor is early Metallica.
 
 
There is NOT ONE definition of Progressive Metal that accurately describes what it is, or excludes Metallica - so what is the problem?
 
Well i do not see Edguy in the site maybe them can get PA




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Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 19 2008 at 15:41
Originally posted by NaturalScience NaturalScience wrote:

I don't mean to be rude, but how many threads devoted to this band do we really need?
 
Come on, i really learned some and enjoyed  discuss the topic, and see guys like Certif1ed , WinterLight and T streching his muscles and defending his ideas... i think that is the most fantastic thing to discuss not only this theme but all for...
 
cheersTongue 




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Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 19 2008 at 15:34
Don't see how this 3rd thread being created is necessary at all... we have two threads already going on the topic.


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Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 19 2008 at 15:22

I really can't stand thrash metal and yet I am or at least used to be a big Metallica fan.  Growing up, I never really considered Metallica to be a thrash band.  Of course, people here on PA refer to Judas Priest as a thrash band and I never considered them to be thrash and they are one of my all-time favorites.  My idea of thrash back in the day was bands like Exodus, Slayer, Venom, S.O.D., and Overkill, which were generally all bands that I didn't really care for.  And Megadeth was kind of a bridge between Metallica and thrash.  IMHO, the only Metallica album that I might consider as a thrash album would be their debut Kill 'em All, and maybe some of the songs on Garage Days, otherwise they were kind of a one of a kind heavy metal band.  I bought Kill Em All and Ride the Lightning LP's shortly after Ride the Lightning was released from an advertisement in a Heavy Metal magazine.  To my mind, Metallica were playing a brand of heavy metal that noone else had really ever played before.  I don't know that the idea of "progressive" metal would have existed at the time, but looking back at it now I would say that yes, Metallica "progressed" heavy metal and I believe that they are one of the major influences on progressive metal.  Not being a musician I don't know much about time signatures and complexity of playing so I have no input from that point of view, however, one of the major things that impressed my friends and I about Metallica is the way that they did change the time signatures within a song.  Not being musicians maybe this was just an illusion but that was definitely the impression that it left and was one of their main appeals. 

My two cents.  Not sure how useful or worthless this opinion is, but it is my opinion to share so do with it as you please.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 19 2008 at 15:11
 
 
Progressive metal (often referred to simply as prog metal) is a sub-genre of heavy metal music which blends the powerful, guitar-driven sound of metal with the complex compositional structures, odd time signatures, and intricate instrumental playing of progressive rock.
 
Actually, it very, very rarely does this - if ever, as my recent "What is Prog?" blog shows very clearly. This is an ambition of Progressive Metal, nothing more.
 
The reality is that it's an extension of what Metallica did.
 
Some progressive metal bands are also influenced by jazz fusion and classical music.
 
Without wishing to be rude, so were Spinal Tap. And so was Cliff Burton.
 
Point me to a Prog Metal band that really shows jazz fusion influences - other than, say Spastic Ink. Bands with actual Classical influence are rarer than bands with actual Classical influence in Progressive Rock. Even Metallica had some Classical influence.
 
Like progressive rock songs, progressive metal songs are usually much longer than standard metal songs, and they are often thematically linked in concept albums.
 
Like "Master of Puppets".
 
 
As a result, progressive metal is rarely heard on mainstream radio and video programs.
 
Nor is early Metallica.
 
 
There is NOT ONE definition of Progressive Metal that accurately describes what it is, or excludes Metallica - so what is the problem?
The important thing is not to stop questioning.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 19 2008 at 15:03
I don't mean to be rude, but how many threads devoted to this band do we really need?
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 19 2008 at 15:00
Voted "thrash". Semantics aside, I'll vote for any "no" option available. becoming less and less of a fan of how expansively prog metal is handled here and this is really the only way of showing it since the teams are so tiny
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