Metallica ¿Are a Progressive Rock Band? |
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Jim Garten
Special Collaborator Retired Admin & Razor Guru Joined: February 02 2004 Location: South England Status: Offline Points: 14693 |
Topic: Metallica ¿Are a Progressive Rock Band? Posted: August 20 2008 at 03:49 |
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We don't need three virtually identical threads people - Please use this one:
http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=50828 This one closed. |
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Jon Lord 1941 - 2012 |
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Certif1ed
Special Collaborator Honorary Collaborator Joined: April 08 2004 Location: England Status: Offline Points: 7559 |
Posted: August 20 2008 at 03:44 | |
Priest's more recent output has certainly used thrash techniques - but the thrash techniques pretty much originated with Priest in the track "Exciter", which uses the fundamental alternate picked riffing ("thrashing" technique.
Thrash carries dumb connotations, but really, it's a guitar technique the same as two-handed neck tapping (as pioneered by Steve Hackett and developed by Eddie Van Halen) or sweep and alternate-picked leads(shredding) - and so many metal bands use it (including "Progressive" ones like Dream Theater, Meshuggah and Opeth), that any "dumb" connotations with the word "thrash" are in the minds of those that have them.
It's actually a Progressive technique, in the same way as the others I mentioned.
Metallica are a thrash metal band in EXACTLY the same way that Dream Theater or Meshuggah are.
They are also a Progressive Rock band in the same way. Edited by Certif1ed - August 20 2008 at 03:46 |
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The important thing is not to stop questioning.
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Atavachron
Special Collaborator Honorary Collaborator Joined: September 30 2006 Location: Pearland Status: Offline Points: 65266 |
Posted: August 19 2008 at 23:52 | |
hey let's keep politics out of it that's a little joke |
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Pekka
Forum Senior Member Joined: August 03 2006 Location: Espoo, Finland Status: Offline Points: 6442 |
Posted: August 19 2008 at 23:50 | |
They were a thrash band in 1981-1983 but in 1984 they already released some more complex pieces. Is The Call of Ktulu a thrash song? Put it on a DT record and it's progressive metal. But nah, Metallica is a very diverse metal/heavy rock band with some progressive leanings, so if you really had to put them on the site, it would definitely go to prog related, I think.
But I guess this has been discussed many times before and we all see the results. |
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MovingPictures07
Prog Reviewer Joined: January 09 2008 Location: Beasty Heart Status: Offline Points: 32181 |
Posted: August 19 2008 at 23:39 | |
Don't worry, Pat and I at a minimum fire back at the heathenous Rush bashers. |
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The T
Special Collaborator Honorary Collaborator Joined: October 16 2006 Location: FL, USA Status: Offline Points: 17493 |
Posted: August 19 2008 at 23:33 | |
^Mike, Metallica was a 100% thrash band only in ONE album... ONE. Here calling them thrash i'ts like equivalent to saying "not PA material".
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MikeEnRegalia
Special Collaborator Honorary Collaborator Joined: April 22 2005 Location: Sweden Status: Offline Points: 21199 |
Posted: August 19 2008 at 18:32 | |
^ is it that big of a problem? I had no problem agreeing to them being a thrash band.
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The T
Special Collaborator Honorary Collaborator Joined: October 16 2006 Location: FL, USA Status: Offline Points: 17493 |
Posted: August 19 2008 at 18:31 | |
It has nothing to do with opinion. It's pure LOGIC.
Translate it like this:
Question: "Is X a Y?"
Answers: " Yes, X is Y"
"No, X is NOT Y"
That would be a logical unbiased poll. But if the second option is :
"No, X is Z"
And that Z is actually almost EXCLUSIVE of Y, then you're biasing the answer. There's no way to answer "NO" in your poll without also having to agree that Metallica is thrash.
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Alberto Muñoz
Forum Senior Member Joined: July 26 2006 Location: Mexico Status: Offline Points: 3577 |
Posted: August 19 2008 at 16:21 | |
Why not???
No are not biased, you are biased about Metallica.
BTW WinterLight has stated that Metallica are a Prog Band, ask him...
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The T
Special Collaborator Honorary Collaborator Joined: October 16 2006 Location: FL, USA Status: Offline Points: 17493 |
Posted: August 19 2008 at 16:08 | |
The questions are wrongly stated. The question is "is metallica prog rock?" the the answers should be YES and NO... You can't add "no, THEY"RE THRASH" without adding a simple "NO" option. Your poll is biased and it has no logic whatsoever.
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Padraic
Special Collaborator Honorary Collaborator Joined: February 16 2006 Location: Pennsylvania Status: Offline Points: 31169 |
Posted: August 19 2008 at 15:49 | |
No. Suede Room is not amused. |
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rushfan4
Special Collaborator Honorary Collaborator Joined: May 22 2007 Location: Michigan, U.S. Status: Offline Points: 66264 |
Posted: August 19 2008 at 15:46 | |
^ Should the discussion be adjourned to the Suede Room? It can be mixed in with miscellaneous Rush bashing and Magma worshipping.
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Padraic
Special Collaborator Honorary Collaborator Joined: February 16 2006 Location: Pennsylvania Status: Offline Points: 31169 |
Posted: August 19 2008 at 15:44 | |
I'm glad you learned and enjoyed the discussion, but I think the discussion could be limited to a single thread, not spread across several. |
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Alberto Muñoz
Forum Senior Member Joined: July 26 2006 Location: Mexico Status: Offline Points: 3577 |
Posted: August 19 2008 at 15:43 | |
Well i do not see Edguy in the site maybe them can get PA
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Alberto Muñoz
Forum Senior Member Joined: July 26 2006 Location: Mexico Status: Offline Points: 3577 |
Posted: August 19 2008 at 15:41 | |
Come on, i really learned some and enjoyed discuss the topic, and see guys like Certif1ed , WinterLight and T streching his muscles and defending his ideas... i think that is the most fantastic thing to discuss not only this theme but all for...
cheers
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Petrovsk Mizinski
Prog Reviewer Joined: December 24 2007 Location: Ukraine Status: Offline Points: 25210 |
Posted: August 19 2008 at 15:34 | |
Don't see how this 3rd thread being created is necessary at all... we have two threads already going on the topic.
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rushfan4
Special Collaborator Honorary Collaborator Joined: May 22 2007 Location: Michigan, U.S. Status: Offline Points: 66264 |
Posted: August 19 2008 at 15:22 | |
I really can't stand thrash metal and yet I am or at least used to be a big Metallica fan. Growing up, I never really considered Metallica to be a thrash band. Of course, people here on PA refer to Judas Priest as a thrash band and I never considered them to be thrash and they are one of my all-time favorites. My idea of thrash back in the day was bands like Exodus, Slayer, Venom, S.O.D., and Overkill, which were generally all bands that I didn't really care for. And Megadeth was kind of a bridge between Metallica and thrash. IMHO, the only Metallica album that I might consider as a thrash album would be their debut Kill 'em All, and maybe some of the songs on Garage Days, otherwise they were kind of a one of a kind heavy metal band. I bought Kill Em All and Ride the Lightning LP's shortly after Ride the Lightning was released from an advertisement in a Heavy Metal magazine. To my mind, Metallica were playing a brand of heavy metal that noone else had really ever played before. I don't know that the idea of "progressive" metal would have existed at the time, but looking back at it now I would say that yes, Metallica "progressed" heavy metal and I believe that they are one of the major influences on progressive metal. Not being a musician I don't know much about time signatures and complexity of playing so I have no input from that point of view, however, one of the major things that impressed my friends and I about Metallica is the way that they did change the time signatures within a song. Not being musicians maybe this was just an illusion but that was definitely the impression that it left and was one of their main appeals. My two cents. Not sure how useful or worthless this opinion is, but it is my opinion to share so do with it as you please. |
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Certif1ed
Special Collaborator Honorary Collaborator Joined: April 08 2004 Location: England Status: Offline Points: 7559 |
Posted: August 19 2008 at 15:11 | |
From Wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Progressive_metal
Progressive metal (often referred to simply as prog metal) is a sub-genre of heavy metal music which blends the powerful, guitar-driven sound of metal with the complex compositional structures, odd time signatures, and intricate instrumental playing of progressive rock.
Actually, it very, very rarely does this - if ever, as my recent "What is Prog?" blog shows very clearly. This is an ambition of Progressive Metal, nothing more.
The reality is that it's an extension of what Metallica did.
Some progressive metal bands are also influenced by jazz fusion and classical music.
Without wishing to be rude, so were Spinal Tap. And so was Cliff Burton.
Point me to a Prog Metal band that really shows jazz fusion influences - other than, say Spastic Ink. Bands with actual Classical influence are rarer than bands with actual Classical influence in Progressive Rock. Even Metallica had some Classical influence.
Like progressive rock songs, progressive metal songs are usually much longer than standard metal songs, and they are often thematically linked in concept albums.
Like "Master of Puppets".
As a result, progressive metal is rarely heard on mainstream radio and video programs.
Nor is early Metallica.
There is NOT ONE definition of Progressive Metal that accurately describes what it is, or excludes Metallica - so what is the problem?
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The important thing is not to stop questioning.
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Padraic
Special Collaborator Honorary Collaborator Joined: February 16 2006 Location: Pennsylvania Status: Offline Points: 31169 |
Posted: August 19 2008 at 15:03 | |
I don't mean to be rude, but how many threads devoted to this band do we really need?
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laplace
Prog Reviewer Joined: October 06 2005 Location: popupControl(); Status: Offline Points: 7606 |
Posted: August 19 2008 at 15:00 | |
Voted "thrash". Semantics aside, I'll vote for any "no" option available. becoming less and less of a fan of how expansively prog metal is handled here and this is really the only way of showing it since the teams are so tiny
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