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Utah Man View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Topic: eliminating "noise"
    Posted: February 03 2008 at 12:04
thanks for all this input guys. it IS appreciated.

OK...anyway, I believe the culprit is the computer itself.


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Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 03 2008 at 04:13
Originally posted by HughesJB4 HughesJB4 wrote:

Originally posted by rileydog22 rileydog22 wrote:

Originally posted by MikeEnRegalia MikeEnRegalia wrote:

Noise gates are great especially in live situations, but for recording it's definitely best to try to eliminate noise at its source ... a noise gate - as Highes said - also removes parts of the signal you're trying to record.

Something you also could consider: The Line6 Variax guitar. It doesn't have any conventional pickups to start with.Smile


Are you sure you aren't a Line 6 employee, Mike?  LOL

Now I'm curious, though: if it doesn't have any pickups, how does it make sound? 
 
It does have pickups, MikeEnRegalia did state it does have pickups. Checking the Line 6 website, I cannot find anywhere in the specifications list exactly what kind of pickups are employed in the Variax, it simply states they are not of the traditional magnetic type. The Variax 600 and 700 come equipped with the L.R Baggs tremolo bridge, which I imagine have piezo pickups incorporated into them to help with the acoustic guitar models, but I cannot confirm that, and perhaps MikeEnRegalia can further educate us on the Variax.


Of course you are correct ... what I meant was that it does not have any *magnetic* pickups. It has piezo pickups which are digitized and then used as a basis for all the guitar models, not just the acoustic ones.

I'm just saying that with the Variax you get a very clean signal ... and if you're also using a POD XT Live or Vetta II you can even get the signal to the computer in pure digital form. I know that many people are opposed to digital formats when it comes to guitars, but if you're using hard disk recording the signal will at some point be converted to a digital format anyway ... converting it to digital very early in the signal chain makes a lot of things much easier.

BTW: I'm not a Line6 employee ... and as a matter of fact I don't own a Variax or a POD XT - they're on my wishlist though. Currently I own a POD (the first model) and the GuitarPort, that's all.Embarrassed
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 03 2008 at 02:57
the use of high quality signal and power cables might help - i had the same problem and it worked in my situation,  though telecasters are notorious for buzz if used too close to the amp,  you could test each unit and connection individually to detect where the hum is coming from, or clean all your connections with "deoxit" . Smile
 
 
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 02 2008 at 21:53
Originally posted by rileydog22 rileydog22 wrote:

Originally posted by MikeEnRegalia MikeEnRegalia wrote:

Noise gates are great especially in live situations, but for recording it's definitely best to try to eliminate noise at its source ... a noise gate - as Highes said - also removes parts of the signal you're trying to record.

Something you also could consider: The Line6 Variax guitar. It doesn't have any conventional pickups to start with.Smile


Are you sure you aren't a Line 6 employee, Mike?  LOL

Now I'm curious, though: if it doesn't have any pickups, how does it make sound? 
 
It does have pickups, MikeEnRegalia did state it does have pickups. Checking the Line 6 website, I cannot find anywhere in the specifications list exactly what kind of pickups are employed in the Variax, it simply states they are not of the traditional magnetic type. The Variax 600 and 700 come equipped with the L.R Baggs tremolo bridge, which I imagine have piezo pickups incorporated into them to help with the acoustic guitar models, but I cannot confirm that, and perhaps MikeEnRegalia can further educate us on the Variax.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 02 2008 at 15:22
Originally posted by Utah Man Utah Man wrote:

Originally posted by MikeEnRegalia MikeEnRegalia wrote:

get a notebook/laptop (which cause much less interference),

you're probably right, but I wonder why a laptop would cause less than a desktop...LCD monitor instead of CRT?


.


The PSU is the big difference and many laptop supplies use a two-pin (unearthed) mains lead, which reduces the earth-loop issue.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 02 2008 at 13:09
Originally posted by Utah Man Utah Man wrote:

Originally posted by MikeEnRegalia MikeEnRegalia wrote:

Noise gates are great especially in live situations, but for recording it's definitely best to try to eliminate noise at its source ... a noise gate - as Highes said - also removes parts of the signal you're trying to record.

Something you also could consider: The Line6 Variax guitar. It doesn't have any conventional pickups to start with.Smile


$



.


The Variax 300 is a very affordable instrument ... I'm not saying it's the appropriate solution for *your* problem, but maybe for others. My only problem with it is that it only has 22 frets ...
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 02 2008 at 12:56

Any of you guys have one of these or have seen them being used ?

Furman Power Conditioners 
http://www.furmansound.com/







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Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 02 2008 at 12:50
Originally posted by Slartibartfast Slartibartfast wrote:

Seriously, the best way to figure this out is to strip things down and build back up, one component at a time.  Sounds to me like a component problem.  And by components I mean even a bad cord could be a culprit.

Hey...green font color is my PA registered trademark y'know LOL

seriously...you're right & I'll try this...good idea.

also I've tried to old trick of turning the volume up full, pushing the EQ high freq. up all the way, then turning this device off...then that device..etc.


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Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 02 2008 at 12:42
Originally posted by darqDean darqDean wrote:

If the "noise" is 50 or 60Hz hum, then you have Earth or Ground Loop problems. Every piece of equipment that has it's own mains cable will earth the equipment by that cable, so when you connect it to your PC you introduce a second path to ground (ie a loop) which will cause currents to flow in the return path, increasing hum.

This might be the problem source...

Originally posted by darqDean darqDean wrote:

You may need to invest in some Balun isolation transformers (eg a DI Box with a ground-lift switch) that will convert your guitar output into a balanced o/p that is less susceptible to pick-up. If you are not DI the guitar but are miking-up the amp speaker then check your microphone uses balanced (XLR) connections (again, a balun can help here)

guitars: all my electrics are DI, acoustics are mic'd
all cables are balanced type.

Originally posted by darqDean darqDean wrote:

Another source of hum is fluorescent lighting, including low-energy bulbs - this is easily identified as it is usually of higher frequency than mains hum - the only solution is to go back to old fashioned incandescent bulbs for lighting.

yea... took care of this issue.
getting rid of the CRT monitor made a big big difference.


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Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 02 2008 at 12:35
Originally posted by MikeEnRegalia MikeEnRegalia wrote:

Noise gates are great especially in live situations, but for recording it's definitely best to try to eliminate noise at its source ... a noise gate - as Highes said - also removes parts of the signal you're trying to record.

Something you also could consider: The Line6 Variax guitar. It doesn't have any conventional pickups to start with.Smile


$



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Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 02 2008 at 12:33
Originally posted by HughesJB4 HughesJB4 wrote:

I record on a laptop as well, and I find you need to be at least 30cms away at the minimum,  and it's good to combine this preventative measure with the pickup angle idea suggested by MikeEnregalia.  Also remember that a good quality noise gate can be very effective, although the side effect of most noise gates is that they also reduce sustain of guitar notes. And if you haven't already, take a look at what single coil size humbucking pickups are available aftermarket. Some people feel they offer lesser tone, although many people are willing to sacrifice a bit of tone for significantly reduced 60Hz hum, but I myself prefer singlecoil sized humbuckers anyway, because they sound less edgy and generally somewhat smoother in frequency response, but that's my personal perference and I prefer the most modern tone possible, as well as practicality, rather than vintage purist tone. I myself lean towards Seymour Duncans, but of course Fender offer their Samarium Cobalt noiseless pickups, available aftermarket, which have significantly less hum than normal single coils, with a smoother frequency response.


with my telecaster, i sit and turn this way & then turn that way till the pickup hum stops.  really weird I think.
i don't have the $ or inclination to replace the pickups.


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Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 02 2008 at 12:33
Originally posted by MikeEnRegalia MikeEnRegalia wrote:

Noise gates are great especially in live situations, but for recording it's definitely best to try to eliminate noise at its source ... a noise gate - as Highes said - also removes parts of the signal you're trying to record.

Something you also could consider: The Line6 Variax guitar. It doesn't have any conventional pickups to start with.Smile


Are you sure you aren't a Line 6 employee, Mike?  LOL

Now I'm curious, though: if it doesn't have any pickups, how does it make sound? 

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 02 2008 at 12:30
Originally posted by MikeEnRegalia MikeEnRegalia wrote:

get a notebook/laptop (which cause much less interference),

you're probably right, but I wonder why a laptop would cause less than a desktop...LCD monitor instead of CRT?


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Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 02 2008 at 12:25
Originally posted by Jaydubz Jaydubz wrote:

What are you recording that's causing the noise?  Guitar?


yes, but by experimenting I'm learning to eliminate whatever "background" noise exists along with the guitar signal.

Processors: Zoom 2020 effects + Boss compressor.

oddly, i get noise with the MIDI keyboard too.
not a lot...but enough to bother a perfectionist like me...


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Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 02 2008 at 08:07
How about some audio noise during recording to cancel out the electronic "noise" ?  Interesting and complex suggestions by the posters above, but I think I've got your best answer for you right there.

Seriously, the best way to figure this out is to strip things down and build back up, one component at a time.  Sounds to me like a component problem.  And by components I mean even a bad cord could be a culprit.

I've picked up radio broadcasts on my setup on occasions.  And of course, nothing really interesting.  At work we have one computer with a really cheap set of speakers that sometimes seems to catch a CB radio signal.  It appears to be from somebody driving by as the office is really close to a busy road.

Ah, the fascinating world of electronics.  Then again, you could switch to totally acoustic instruments, where I think no instances of electronic weirdness have been reported.  But then there's that problem of not being able to share with anyone who isn't around to listen to what you're creating...




Edited by Slartibartfast - February 02 2008 at 08:23
Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened...

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 02 2008 at 07:45
If the "noise" is 50 or 60Hz hum, then you have Earth or Ground Loop problems. Every piece of equipment
that has it's own mains cable will earth the equipment by that cable, so when you connect it to your PC you introduce a second path to ground (ie a loop) which will cause currents to flow in the return path, increasing hum.
 
You may need to invest in some Balun isolation transformers (eg a DI Box with a ground-lift switch) that will convert your guitar output into a balanced o/p that is less susceptible to pick-up. If you are not DI the guitar but are miking-up the amp speaker then check your microphone uses balanced (XLR) connections (again, a balun can help here)
 
Another source of hum is fluorescent lighting, including low-energy bulbs - this is easily identified as it is usually of higher frequency than mains hum - the only solution is to go back to old fashioned incandescent bulbs for lighting.
What?
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 02 2008 at 06:02

Well I myself have only had experience with the Stomp Box style noise gates, and they tend to steal a fairly noticeable amount of sustain and can rob you of noticeable amounts of high end as wellThumbs%20Down. I have heard much better things about the ISP Technologies Decimator Noise Reducer, while like all noise gates/noise reducers, reduces sustain and tone, does so less noticeably than say the Boss NS-2 and similar pedals. I Haven't tried out the Line 6 Variax, i always tend to find myself gravitation towards all the Jackson Dinkys and Soloists and Ibanez RG/S Series when i head into the guitar shops................

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 02 2008 at 05:47
Noise gates are great especially in live situations, but for recording it's definitely best to try to eliminate noise at its source ... a noise gate - as Highes said - also removes parts of the signal you're trying to record.

Something you also could consider: The Line6 Variax guitar. It doesn't have any conventional pickups to start with.Smile
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 02 2008 at 05:41

I record on a laptop as well, and I find you need to be at least 30cms away at the minimum,  and it's good to combine this preventative measure with the pickup angle idea suggested by MikeEnregalia.  Also remember that a good quality noise gate can be very effective, although the side effect of most noise gates is that they also reduce sustain of guitar notes. And if you haven't already, take a look at what single coil size humbucking pickups are available aftermarket. Some people feel they offer lesser tone, although many people are willing to sacrifice a bit of tone for significantly reduced 60Hz hum, but I myself prefer singlecoil sized humbuckers anyway, because they sound less edgy and generally somewhat smoother in frequency response, but that's my personal perference and I prefer the most modern tone possible, as well as practicality, rather than vintage purist tone. I myself lean towards Seymour Duncans, but of course Fender offer their Samarium Cobalt noiseless pickups, available aftermarket, which have significantly less hum than normal single coils, with a smoother frequency response.

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 02 2008 at 05:01
The computer itself is causing a lot of electrostatic noise picked up by guitar pickups. One way to solve this is to get a notebook/laptop (which cause much less interference), another is to put some distance between yourself and the computer when recording, and to experiment with different angles (pickup in relation to computer).
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