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TheKnowingDirge
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Joined: October 26 2005
Location: United States
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Points: 14
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Topic: Who can read sheet music ? Posted: November 05 2005 at 20:41 |
Been reading sheet music since I was but a lad.
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rosa_obscurae
Forum Newbie
Joined: August 08 2005
Location: United States
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Points: 4
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Posted: August 18 2005 at 21:47 |
I have a decent understanding of music theory, and I can read treble
and bass clef moderately well when given time to figure out rhythms and
such.
But I definately can't sight read, in spite of all my efforts over the last couple of years...
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"Getting people to do what you want is simply a matter of telling them what they want to hear"
-Unknown
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Reverie
Forum Senior Member
Joined: May 14 2005
Location: Australia
Status: Offline
Points: 626
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Posted: August 17 2005 at 02:26 |
Yes.... very very slowly.
I did start learning around 8 years ago when i first picked up the guitar, then when i quit guitar i forgot everything i had learned. Then in high school when i did music i started to relearn but nothing really stuck. Now i'm going to a music school next year so i'll be relearning it all over again.
I know the rhythm side of things very well (note values, time signatures, polyrhythms etc.), it's just scales and what not i need to memorise. I'm beginning to understand how it all relates (eg. how to determine chords from scales like EbMaj-sus4 or something) and i understand how the scale determines the key signature it's just a matter of memorising it all really.
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cobb
Forum Senior Member
Joined: July 10 2005
Location: Australia
Status: Offline
Points: 1149
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Posted: August 17 2005 at 01:41 |
Ben2112 wrote:
I can read it for keyboard fairly well, but it's slow going for me when it comes to guitar. That's why tab was invented:
it is a much more accurate and logical method for transcribing guitar
and bass (and maybe violin and other string instruments, I don't know).
Best is the tab/sheet music combination, so you can read the notes from
the tab and the rhythms from the sheet. |
Tabulature (TAB) was invented in the Renaissance period (over 400 years ago) as a way of writing for the lute.
[edit] and no, it is not more accurate - it gives no indication of note length, timing or expression
Edited by cobb
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Evan1211
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Joined: July 16 2005
Location: United States
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Points: 95
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Posted: August 16 2005 at 17:59 |
I can read sheet music. I took a theory class in HS. I learned alot and hope to learn more theory in college. I actually find it easier to play be ear though (bass guitar) even on hard pieces. But when I want to write my own music then the theory will come in handy!
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saxman52
Forum Newbie
Joined: July 27 2005
Status: Offline
Points: 4
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Posted: July 28 2005 at 00:00 |
Progbear wrote:
The modes, built on the C-major scale (white keys of the piano):
C = Ionian (major scale)
D = Dorian
E = Phrygian
F = Lydian
G = Mixolydian
A = Aeolian (natural minor)
B = Locrian
As stated above, the Aeolian is the natural minor, and is the one you
hear most commonly apart from the major scale in pop and popular
classical music. The others are commonly used in jazz improvisation,
except for Locrian, which is scarcely used because it’s “dissonant”,
owing to the tonic chord being diminished. Of course, you’ll find some
composers using it deliberately to take advantage of the fact that its
sound is disorienting. John McLaughlin used it a lot in the Mahavishnu
Orchestra stuff (and the so-called “Super-Locrian”, which is just the
Locrian with a flatted 5th). |
Eh? Being a jazz saxophonist with what I'm told is a fairly advanced
command of jazz theory, I would tend to disagree. I've always learned
that for jazz, Aeolian and Phrygian are seldom used and everything else
is used often with Ionian, Dorian, and Mixolydian being the three most
common. For example, in a minor ii-V-I, you'd have a half-diminished ii
chord, which you'd use a locrian, harmonic minor, or super
locrian/locrian #2/half-diminished (they're all different names for the
same thing) scale over. Minor ii-V's are very common, whereas the
phrygian scales are only really used over susb9 chords. Susb9 chords
are MUCH less common, I might add. Also, the difference between a
locrian and a "super locrian" scale is not a flatted 5th (which the
locrian scale already has), but a sharp 2, hence it is sometimes
referred to as the "locrian #2" scale.
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bityear
Forum Senior Member
Joined: April 25 2004
Location: Sweden
Status: Offline
Points: 171
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Posted: July 19 2005 at 10:27 |
I read bass clef, but slower than I should. A problem bassists have. We
never get to play too difficult lines, so we don't get used to read 'em
when they do show up!
In (prog) rock I think sheet music is the perfect way for bassists,
while I know guitarists who prefers tabs. And, I can see that. The
guitarist's stuff often ranges from that low B to a high E (didn't
botherfiguring out which octaves...) and that makes for a lot of lines
in the notes, unless you use lots of 8va stuff, and both treble and
bass clef. The problem I have with tabs is that yes, they sometimes
they help you figure out the fingerings, but too often the guy who made
the tab is a total noob, and then the tab will just make it difficult
for you, unless you're quicker than me at figuring out fingerings on
your own. I had that problem a couple of years ago, when I was going to
try to learn DT's Erotomania and Dance of Eternity. The former is quite
easy, but the tab was sh*te, so it was quite difficult until I watched
another guy playing it. Then it was like, WOW. Same thing with TDOE,
which is a damn difficult one. The first tab I used had some insane
fingerings, and made it all even more difficult. Then I checked another
tab, and there was the WOW again. I should pick that one up again. It's
so fun to play stuff that's too difficult! When you do get some things
right, well, that's a KICK!
Another prob with tabs is reading rythms. If you're looking up a tab to
play along with an existing song, you'll work the rythms out by ear,
but if you're writing your own music, it's notes all the way for me.
Tabs are too easily misunderstood. Guitar Pro is helpful there, though.
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www.geocities.com/joelbitars
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cobb
Forum Senior Member
Joined: July 10 2005
Location: Australia
Status: Offline
Points: 1149
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Posted: July 18 2005 at 07:58 |
Utah_man get a good classical guitar beginners book - the Frederick
Noad series is good. After all, there are only seven different notes-
how hard can it be. BTW tab (or Tablature) is not a new invention. It
is how they used to write for the lute back in the renaissance, 400 odd
years ago. Tab has one drawback though- it gives you no indication of
the length of notes. Back in those days they used to write the note
value above the tablature.
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yesman72
Forum Senior Member
Joined: May 28 2005
Status: Offline
Points: 185
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Posted: July 17 2005 at 17:28 |
Wow I'm impressed. I didn't know I was surrounded by this many fellow musicians. I can read music and have written music. If you're gonna be a musician you gotta at least learn the rudiments of reading. I also agree with Sweetnighter and Moogtron III. You really need both especially to be a prog musician. And I'd also like to say that Aeolian is the most ignored mode if you think about it. Most popular music employs Dorian(as stated above by Sweetnighter) and almost all classical is Harmonic Minor. Now I've got a question. Is there anyone on this forum who can proficiently perform and understands anything off of Octopus by Gentle Giant? I'd love to some day.
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Moogtron III
Prog Reviewer
Joined: April 26 2005
Location: Belgium
Status: Offline
Points: 10616
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Posted: July 16 2005 at 15:15 |
Sweetnighter wrote:
Yes'm, I can read and write sheet music.
I hate these music theory classes they have out there... they always teach music theory from the classical perspective. Honestly, they teach melodic, harmonic, and natural minor scales/key and never teach dorian. 99% of contemporary music that you hear on the radio that employs a minor scale employs dorian minors. Just kills me. If you want to learn comtemporary music theory, LEARN JAZZ. Major, dorian minor, and dominant keys are crucial, for composing and improvising. The best composers are master improvisers, take my word for it.
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It's my experience that's it's best to learn both. That makes you very versatile as a musician. I studied classical piano for about 10 years, but contemporary music and lessons in improvising, and in blue notes and all, sure meant a breath of fresh air for me, and it expanded my musical horizon enormously. Still I'm very happy with my classical background. That's very valuable for any prog musician.
Edited by Moogtron III
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Progbear
Prog Reviewer
Joined: July 14 2005
Location: CA
Status: Offline
Points: 139
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Posted: July 16 2005 at 14:17 |
The modes, built on the C-major scale (white keys of the piano):
C = Ionian (major scale)
D = Dorian
E = Phrygian
F = Lydian
G = Mixolydian
A = Aeolian (natural minor)
B = Locrian
As stated above, the Aeolian is the natural minor, and is the one you
hear most commonly apart from the major scale in pop and popular
classical music. The others are commonly used in jazz improvisation,
except for Locrian, which is scarcely used because it’s “dissonant”,
owing to the tonic chord being diminished. Of course, you’ll find some
composers using it deliberately to take advantage of the fact that its
sound is disorienting. John McLaughlin used it a lot in the Mahavishnu
Orchestra stuff (and the so-called “Super-Locrian”, which is just the
Locrian with a flatted 5th).
I can read notation, but I can’t
sight-read, nor can I play “by ear”. I’ve always been highly envious of
those that can. My method has always been to look at the manuscript and
“hunt and peck” until I can play it properly (or close enough for rock
& roll). Treble clef is generally fine as long as there aren’t tons
of leger lines. I’ve still not quite got the hang of bass clef, and
alto/tenor clefs give me a headache. (Good thing I never became a viola
player!)
I suppose this explains why I never became a musician.
------------- MIKE (a.k.a. "Progbear")
"It is not an obscenity to be free. It is a divine right." --Annette Peacock
N.P.:"Light From Above"-Universe
Edited by Progbear
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goose
Forum Senior Member
Joined: June 20 2004
Location: United Kingdom
Status: Offline
Points: 4097
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Posted: July 10 2005 at 16:17 |
Been practising my treble & tenor clef after realising I need to read in them for sightreading in my grade 8 'cello exam in a bit over a week
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Plenilunio
Forum Newbie
Joined: July 07 2005
Location: Afghanistan
Status: Offline
Points: 30
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Posted: July 10 2005 at 16:13 |
I read both F and G clef, not so quick as would like, but I do.
It's handy, but not obligatory to be a good musician.
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Schizoid Man
Forum Senior Member
Joined: July 03 2005
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 251
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Posted: July 10 2005 at 15:40 |
Can't read nor write music on paper. I have used my ears for the last 39 years. But then, I am not a professional musician...just play in my spare time.
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Always remember that you are unique. Just like everyone else.
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seabre
Forum Groupie
Joined: June 04 2005
Status: Offline
Points: 84
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Posted: July 10 2005 at 01:41 |
I do.
I read treble, bass, and tenor clef..errr....
I learned treble when I started in band playing the alto saxophone.
Later, I learned to read guitar sheet music..which isn't *that* hard..
Then I started double bass and taught myself bass clef...THEN..to tuba..
I can play a little piano... don't ask how I know how to read tenor clef :-P.
And..yeah..If you want to learn modern composition..etc..study jazz theory..it's very important.
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pammiwhammi
Forum Groupie
Joined: June 29 2005
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 54
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Posted: July 01 2005 at 21:46 |
I can read, although I rarely do. I understand theory very well. I
can't sight read though, and I think a lot of it has to do with my
terrible math deficiency. I certainly tried! Two years of 3 to 4 hours
a day, and my dexterity improved dramatically, and my musical
understanding improved, but my sight reading skills are non-existent.
I.e. I see double dotted eighth-notes and just can not process it
fast enough to be effective.
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"I repeat myself when under stress, I repeat myself when under stress, I repeat myself when under stress..."
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goose
Forum Senior Member
Joined: June 20 2004
Location: United Kingdom
Status: Offline
Points: 4097
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Posted: June 27 2005 at 13:04 |
It's also rather important to be able to do the former though, no? That's something I'm not so good at as the latter.
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BaldJean
Prog Reviewer
Joined: May 28 2005
Location: Germany
Status: Offline
Points: 10387
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Posted: June 27 2005 at 09:57 |
Guests wrote:
reading sheet is easy to learn and easy to do. the hard part is doing it on sight. that is, doing it fluently, like reading a book. i can read sheet, i just have to decipher each note one at a time. that is not true reading,IMO. the thing is though, yu who admired those who write more than those who read, writing music is easier than reading it. because yu already know the notes and there is no deadline of timing yu dont have to be fluent to write. it's easy! wish i could read well enough to play the song while im doing it though!
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There is also a difference in just reading it and immediately knowing which key of a keyboard (for example) or which fret and string on a guitar it is associated with. I mean not knowing "Oh yeah, that's a G, now where is that on the keyboard?", but just putting your finger on the key just like this, without even thinking about the fact that it is actually a "G" you are playing..
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A shot of me as High Priestess of Gaia during our fall festival. Ceterum censeo principiis obsta
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Velvetclown
Forum Senior Member
Joined: February 13 2004
Status: Offline
Points: 8548
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Posted: June 27 2005 at 09:35 |
I can´t read sh*t Music.
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Borealis
Forum Senior Member
Joined: May 06 2005
Location: Neutral Zone
Status: Offline
Points: 599
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Posted: June 27 2005 at 09:31 |
I can, although I'm not very good, but I'm too lazy to use it. I see no fun in playing songs that aren't mine on a sheet. I prefer to improvise and write stuff, I like to creat something, that's music. But I got that feel I really need to get into it to progress, but well...
I am the only violonist that I know that do not read well music sheets. I am also the only guy I know who play violin, a coincidence... I guess...
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Vive le Québec libre!...
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